Swamp edge planted spruce

[nwmn]

I am trying to enhance my swamp edge by adding some spruce to the mix with the willows and tag alders. We are in NW MN where the NW winter wind is prevalent and nasty. Right now we've got food to the North of the swamp, with no relief from the wind to the swamps. Looking at some aerial shots, I notice a funnel of willows N/S through the swamp, and I would like to add spruce to that mix as well as enhance the edges and toy around with what I've read people on here planting lines of spruce in woods and guiding deer to where I can ambush them. HEre is a quick aerial. Lime green is where new food will be, and the red is proposed spruce planting, blue is existing trail and the black is where i'd like to connect the main trail to new food plot, and have it wind near the spruce planted swamp edge.

To enhance the bedding capabilities both long term and short term would it be foolish to mow a ring around the swamp where I wan tto plant spruce? I would think it would thicken the area up quite a bit and get the spruce a headstart. It'll be thick and nasty either way so i think getting the long term objective a head start it would be best. I would also like to create some sort of inside corner access into the food, so i would shape the food plot to achieve that objective. I feel spruce cover is what our property is lacking and I'd like to maximize bedding near the food so the deer have easier going come winter.

 

[dipper]

Plant them on any hump or slightly higher ground that doesn't have standing water in spring. They will be fine. I wouldn't be too concerned with perfect lines or designs. White pine is tolerates wetter feet, and is especially good if u don't have an overpopulation of deer.
Grass control=a 3' ring of ghlyphosate with a backpack sprayer before bud break. If it's not too wet i use my 50 gallon electric sprayer on the back of my 8n. The backpack sprayer is nice because there's no chance of burying that in a swamp.

 

[sandbur]

I can not see your aerial photo.

I would suggest planting 2 or 3 rows of spruce along all swamp edges. We used a scalper to roll back the sod when we planted our spruce 25 years ago. That is an attachment that works well in lighter soil, but not heavy soil. An old single bottom plow could create a dead furrow and do the same thing. A trough to hold moisture, decreased weed competition, and some shade from the trough.

If it is too wet, try tamarack mixed with black spruce.

I like a bit of shade for spruce survival with hot summer winds and also for winter burn during low snowfall winters. I don't really like the clean planting spot idea.

I leave a gap of 20-50 yards and then plant more spruce about 5-10 years later. Plant clover in the gap, plant crab apple trees/plum trees, or just leave it for grassy or tag alder bedding if that fits the plan better.

I think you have seen some of my pictures before.

 

[sandbur]

If you are working with an area where field joins swamp, and there is lots of reed canary, I would consider disking a strip either swamp side (if a dry year) or high side of the spruce planting. I would then come back with some willows, probably sandbar willow and try placing some horizontally under the soils surface. Maybe black willow from what I have read. This is strictly speculation and not something that I have tried, but I have seen sandbar willow do well where farmers have disked RC during a dry year.

Disking an old grassy meadow(not RC) can also being up lot s of seeds that provide new growth and feed for deer.

 

[Freeborn]

I have similar plans but have not figured out the chemical maintenance regime for tackling reed canary. I was thinking of mowing areas this spring, and then spraying Gly but would like to add something with a residual that would slow down the RC. Does Lickcreek use Oust to provide residual for reed canary?

Also, does anybody have a source for 3' spruce trees, this might be worth it if I target certain areas.

FB

 

[sandbur]

Coldstream Farm has 2-3' bareroot spruce I believe, Lawyer Nursery does as well...but not every year.

Just checked CSF...they have some 4-5' black spruce, probably have larger specimens of other spruce as well.

Those bigger bare root spruce have not done well for me on light soil. I like something with a dirt root ball.

Jerry-I would create a nursery near where you have water and move them when they are about knee high. Maybe plant 50 or 75 plugs this spring in a garden.

Bare root might work during a wet year, but we never know about that.

 

[Freeborn]

Coldstream Farm has 2-3' bareroot spruce I believe, Lawyer Nursery does as well...but not every year.

Just checked CSF...they have some 4-5' black spruce, probably have larger specimens of other spruce as well.

Thanks, I wonder what shipping would cost? I'm hoping for a local source where I can corrdinate picking up trees as I need. If this works it could be something I do for many years as planting plugs in reed canary means years of spraying and I think its risky and time consuming. I do have an area to start a nursery and I will also do that.

 

[Freeborn]

Freeborn, NCF carries some larger plugs. I don't think they'd be 3', but they're definitely good sized. The other source(s) would obviously be local nurseries. I used to pick up 3-5' potted evergreens from big box stores or nurseries when they'd have sales. Towards the end of spring you can get them for less than half cost many times. They still aren't "cheap" though. All depends on what you're looking to spend and how big of holes you're wanting to dig :D

I think you mean NCR "North Central Reforestation". I'll reach out the Michele and see what they have, they would be very handy. I thought NCF was Cold Stream Farms? :rolleyes:

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've posted about directing deer movement by planting spruce. I think it depends on what kind of cover you have in your locality. If you have numbers of pines, hemlock, firs, etc., the spruce may not do much in the way of " directing " deer movement. If you have a bunch of deciduous trees that are bare in winter, you can get the deer to hang around, bed in, & travel thru spruce. I've not planted any spruce in wet, swampy ground - so you'll get better advice from Sandbur or Stu on that. I'm not familiar with Black Hills spruce, Black spruce, or any other spruce that do well in swampy ground.

One thing I DO know about spruce is that they make a super windbreak, no matter where you're located. They make excellent bedding cover and seem to give deer a sense of security when they travel beside or amongst them. The pix that Sandbur posted are perfect examples. If I were hunting open areas of ag or prairie type terrain, or open swamps, I'd be looking to set up stands in spots like Sandbur has in his pix. Planting crabapple, plum, and clover in gaps like Bur suggested would be gold to my way of thinking too.

Here in Pa., on high pressure ground and public land ( even higher pressure ), some of the most predictable and dependable deer movement can be found in and around spruce plantings. The majority of our woods are oak, hickory, maple, with some white pine and hemlock mixed in. So when the leaves drop, deer movement can get concentrated into hemlocks ( the heaviest shade & shadows ) and spruce. I like to plant meandering, random lines of spruce when I want to direct deer movement thru open woods. I guess they feel secure walking near them. Whatever the reason, it works here.

 

[sandbur]

I don't know (yet) if it works here, but the same thing works in central WI...pretty sure it'll work most anywhere :)

It works best after the hardwoods have dropped their leaves. Not so much with early bow season.
FB-about 15 years ago I bought a fairly large group of potted black Hills spruce from a nursery by New London Spicer and got a good price. I can't remember the name of the place.....

I would not use Bh spruce along a swamp, but put them on the upper edge where it was drier.

 

[nwmn]

Let's see if it works this time. Not the quality it was before but it's a general idea.

 

[nwmn]

This is my tree order, much of which will be used for bedding purposes and using to plant the PB and such around the new cabin. I'm thinking cedar and tamarack in the middle of the swamp, and south edge would contain white and norway spruce, while the north and west would have norway spruce on the drier ground. we are very flat, so 1-2' of elevation shift is what we experience in a 100 yard stretch at the steepest :)

198.00 NORWAY SPRUCE 4A
198.00 WHITE SPRUCE 4A
77.00 NORWAY SPRUCE 77
77.00 WHITE SPRUCE 77
77.00 WHITE CEDAR 77
25.00 NORWAY SPRUCE PB
45.00 WHITE PINE PB
45.00 RED PINE ST45
77.00 BUR OAK 77
25.00 WHITE SPRUCE PB
77.00 TAMARACK 77

 

[West Branch]

Are you buying protection for the cedar? I had blue netting over some mp45 white cedar this spring and deer found them and pulled a couple off and nipped those off. One must have been soon after planting because the whole plug was pulled up. Majority were fine but the deer do want them!

I did some Norway spruce 77 this past spring and had a noticeable # die off. Not sure why, possibly drown out with all the rain. The ones that did make it look great. I am thinking I better get my order in soon and get some of those bigger trees added in again!

I have About 20 white cedar and 50 black spruce in a nursery area to grow a few years and then transplant with shovel into wet areas similar to where you are planning. Otherwise I plan on using white spruce, Norway spruce, and balsam fir in the drier areas.

I also bought a stove pipe and made a handle and used it to cover trees to spray with gly. Mine was a little small for the 77 trees, but seemed to work pretty good. Also make sure the pipe is tall anough for minimal bending. I need a new one next year!

 

[bwoods11]

My farm is in NW MN

I've had good luck with Black Hills Spruce on semi-dry areas. Black Spruce on moist areas.

Your order looks good overall

 

[nwmn]

Are you buying protection for the cedar? I had blue netting over some mp45 white cedar this spring and deer found them and pulled a couple off and nipped those off. One must have been soon after planting because the whole plug was pulled up. Majority were fine but the deer do want them!

I did some Norway spruce 77 this past spring and had a noticeable # die off. Not sure why, possibly drown out with all the rain. The ones that did make it look great. I am thinking I better get my order in soon and get some of those bigger trees added in again!

I have About 20 white cedar and 50 black spruce in a nursery area to grow a few years and then transplant with shovel into wet areas similar to where you are planning. Otherwise I plan on using white spruce, Norway spruce, and balsam fir in the drier areas.

I also bought a stove pipe and made a handle and used it to cover trees to spray with gly. Mine was a little small for the 77 trees, but seemed to work pretty good. Also make sure the pipe is tall anough for minimal bending. I need a new one next year!

I don't plan on protecting the cedar. I know I should, but I prefer just planting quantities and hoping they'll make it. Spring is always too short to get projects done, so that would just shorten the window even more and add costs. I like the nursery idea, I may plant a ton around the cabin and transplant them when they are sizable. We already have a 'nursery' where a bunch of smaller scotch pine I believe are growing in the cabin area. I hope to transplant those at some point as well.

I love planting the larger trees, makes you feel like more is getting done, otherwise I would have gone with all 4a stock in spruce again. I just hope this years planting makes it, as I lost a TON from the last years. It'll be neat to test the 77 vs 4a vs styro and Pb. I will plant for comparison near the cabin so I can see which seedling size is better for the long term. Figured I got plenty to play with might as well turn it into a study.

Great idea on the pipe idea. Ill have to do that too. I was going ot use a 5 gallon bucket but this would be much lighter and easier to use. When did you spray and what sort of radius did you spray? Did you spray a foot around each tree or further?