Sorghum Screen Fail thoughts

[Bassattackr]

Straight EW does about as well as Sudan. My EW a rough year drought wise but still managed to recover. Seed heads are about 8’ in the below pic. Disced in with 20# of N and walked away. Upland Med Soil - nothing special.

I’m going to toy around with some Silage BMR varieties that don’t get quite as tall, but have a better stalk and standability into late season. An interior row of grain sorghum could blend the edge better too.

 

[Brian662]

Here is my NW whitetails HD screen. Followed planting instructions, tilled, broadcast seed and 19-19-19 and packed. Didn't have my packer available, so used 4 wheeler tires, which was a PITA but it worked. Planting date was last week of May. Never did get simazine on it, had a decent amount of broadleaf competition but the screen easily outgrew it in July. It was 12-15' tall by late summer.
Have noticed the wind and weather has knocked it down a bit, probably stands about 8' tall now and can be seen through in a few spots. It was probably planted about 25' in width.

 

[FarmerDan]

One more thought....
It's about the soil fertility where we plant screens. If the planting is at the edge of a field I wonder how different the soil pH and potassium levels (K) are compared to the rest of the field.

Then there's the competition with whatever defines the outside boundary of the field you're screening. If you look at farm production yield maps, there often is a significant drop in production in a 10-20 ft wide buffer inside the field. It's a clue.

Also, there were several mentions about pushing N on the screen plants. True enough, but for standability there must be lots of K as well. The K has to be there before you plant...unlike N.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

One more thought....
It's about the soil fertility where we plant screens. If the planting is at the edge of a field I wonder how different the soil pH and potassium levels (K) are compared to the rest of the field.

Then there's the competition with whatever defines the outside boundary of the field you're screening. If you look at farm production yield maps, there often is a significant drop in production in a 10-20 ft wide buffer inside the field. It's a clue.

Also, there were several mentions about pushing N on the screen plants. True enough, but for standability there must be lots of K as well. The K has to be there before you plant...unlike N.

Looking at the original photos, It appears that many plants fail to emerge or had a slow start. That would make me think it could be phosphorus. Regardless, a soil test would help indicate phosphorus and potassium levels.

Being on the field edge could also be an area of concentrated compaction. This could also be interacting with the chemistry side of things.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

These were the soil test results I had. First one was from May, second more detailed was from Mid july not long after I had spread lime. I don't believe it's likely there was a significant edge of field variance deal at play here. Most of it was well within the edges of a longstanding hay field before i got the property august of '21.

From U of MN, apparently i didn't request a detailed enough analysis.



From Ward Labs

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Pics taken last weekend from the road i'm trying to screen from. The grass just before the failed screen is RCG so folks can see that RCG wont do the job in this application.



In this pic you can see the darker bushy tag alder and sandbar willow in the RCG. I think protecting this stuff and letting it go is likely to be my easiest solution. Would spraying cleth on any young RCG amongst it allow it to grow/spread faster?




A different plot where the screen (from neighbors hay field) fared even worse. This isn't quite as wet as the other plot and i think a major factor here was deer browsing the tender young sorghum before it ever got established. I expect to have a lot of clover and chicory in this plot next spring/summer that might help relieve browse pressure on a screen if I try again here.

 

[Brian662]

@Wind Gypsy Have you looked into any of the hybrid screens you can plant from cuttings, like Big Rock Trees offer? I looked into their road screening options, I want to say it was hybrid poplar and hybrid willow. They might do good in areas with poor draining soil?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

@Wind Gypsy Have you looked into any of the hybrid screens you can plant from cuttings, like Big Rock Trees offer? I looked into their road screening options, I want to say it was hybrid poplar and hybrid willow. They might do good in areas with poor draining soil?

I did. Actually bought a bunch of hybrid willow cutting last year. Unfortunately the apple/spruce plantings and life got in the way of me ever planting them as well as just being worried without protection they'll never make it. There is a lot of willow and alder growing naturally in and around this field. I think a bunch could get done with just letting it grow and supplementing with cuttings and maybe some alder plantings from my existing stock in the area. I'm not going to cage that stuff though.

I have some pretty mature alders on the north end of the field i was going to cut a bunch of to thicken up at ground level and some young aspen on the east side i was going to hinge to direct traffic. I'm thinking I'll probably get after some of this stuff with a chainsaw and use the tops to protect ROD plantings in the north end of the field that isn't food plot and willow cuttings for a screen on the south side.

 

[Brian662]

Is aspen a good tree to hinge? I didn't think it was, I've always heard of clear cutting aspen for the regeneration factor...but I'm now sure how well that would work as a screen.

 

[omicron1792]

I did. Actually bought a bunch of hybrid willow cutting last year. Unfortunately the apple/spruce plantings and life got in the way of me ever planting them as well as just being worried without protection they'll never make it. There is a lot of willow and alder growing naturally in and around this field. I think a bunch could get done with just letting it grow and supplementing with cuttings and maybe some alder plantings from my existing stock in the area. I'm not going to cage that stuff though.

I have some pretty mature alders on the north end of the field i was going to cut a bunch of to thicken up at ground level and some young aspen on the east side i was going to hinge to direct traffic. I'm thinking I'll probably get after some of this stuff with a chainsaw and use the tops to protect ROD plantings in the north end of the field that isn't food plot and willow cuttings for a screen on the south side.

How was the initial germination? Could you have planted too deep? Any chance of herbicide overspray?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Is aspen a good tree to hinge? I didn't think it was, I've always heard of clear cutting aspen for the regeneration factor...but I'm now sure how well that would work as a screen.

I wouldn't say they are a good tree to hinge but a successful hinge isn't that important in this case. They are maybe 4-5" trunks. Goal would be to lay them down in one direction at a height that makes it inconvenient to enter/exit the field there. If I can get them to stay connected to stump and 2-3' off the ground that would serve the purpose. If they don't hinge, i'll find a way to have them off the ground enough to serve the purpose.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Going off lousy memory:

How was the initial germination?

Not great but a lot better than the final population IIRC

Could you have planted too deep?

Possible in some cases. The RCG was really too thick and tough still so i think there were cases of both not getting seed through the sod mat or possibly punching through it too deep into the dirt.

Any chance of herbicide overspray?

Very slight. I don't think that was a cause off of memory though. Never sprayed with a notable wind.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I would consider applying some potassium. Your soil test values are low for that on both tests (which could explain the lodging). The phosphorus is also low (especially for UMN's analysis), and might explain the spotty emergence. I wouldn't give up on this site and would consider an application of a complete fertilizer with N-P-K in it next year.

Anecdotally and in a completely different state, but we have been planting sorghum-sudangrass with great success the last several years. We had typical emergence this year but the severe drought in the last half of the summer really hurt how tall it got and also saw them get knocked over a lot easier and earlier than normal.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I would consider applying some potassium. Your soil test values are low for that on both tests (which could explain the lodging). The phosphorus is also low (especially for UMN's analysis), and might explain the spotty emergence. I wouldn't give up on this site and would consider an application of a complete fertilizer with N-P-K in it next year.

Anecdotally and in a completely different state, but we have been planting sorghum-sudangrass with great success the last several years. We had typical emergence this year but the severe drought in the last half of the summer really hurt how tall it got and also saw them get knocked over a lot easier and earlier than normal.

Thanks for the input. I'm going to make another attempt next year, probably with different seed (likely a blend). I disced up about 15' wide just inside this year's attempted screen to make sure i have a nice bed to plant into next year with no sod mat. This screen was the first thing i ever planted with my drill and I've learned quite a bit about it since. I wont have nearly the RCG competition so I am hopeful for better results. I'll run another soil test in the spring with recommended amendments for a sorghum planting.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Bumping this sucker as we’re getting close to planting time for this years screen. Soil temps are plenty high now but haven’t had time to get equipment to the land yet.

I did buy some of the NWW HD screen as well as some EW. I was thinking about blending them in hopes of having some screen if water hampers the HD variety. I still need to send soil tests in but plan to get some more p and k down. I’m concerned about browse on other options as it seemed like that hurt me a bit last year even on just the HD screen sorghum.

I noted that on a recent northwoods whitetail vid they were changing their recommendations on simazine. I may have applied at a bit too high of a rate last year. Regardless, weed control is in a better place so far this year.

I have been eyeballing some single shank subsoilers and considering if that would help the soil breathe and drain a bit better as well but don’t anticipate having one before screen planting time. https://www.everythingattachments.com/Tractor-Subsoiler-p/ea-subsoiler-wicked.htm
^this one in particular looks nice based on features. 3 pt connection points are supported on both sides so I wouldn’t have to worry about bending them like I’ve seen people post about on the lighter duty ones, uses a sheer pin to protect the tractor and implement, and the thinness and bevel on the shank seem like they’d cut through the ground better than most others.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Also thinking I may just need to buck up and have weed mat and plant 1100’ of hybrid willow/poplar and fence the whole works next spring if this is a bust again this year.

I got some bad news from the neighbor across the street from this field that the county is going to lower the culvert going from his land to mine which should result in more water flowing from him to me during spring melt off and really heavy rain events..

The spruce trees planted last year for a screen don’t look so hot..

 

[TreeDaddy]

Bumping this sucker as we’re getting close to planting time for this years screen. Soil temps are plenty high now but haven’t had time to get equipment to the land yet.

I did buy some of the NWW HD screen as well as some EW. I was thinking about blending them in hopes of having some screen if water hampers the HD variety. I still need to send soil tests in but plan to get some more p and k down. I’m concerned about browse on other options as it seemed like that hurt me a bit last year even on just the HD screen sorghum.

I noted that on a recent northwoods whitetail vid they were changing their recommendations on simazine. I may have applied at a bit too high of a rate last year. Regardless, weed control is in a better place so far this year.

I have been eyeballing some single shank subsoilers and considering if that would help the soil breathe and drain a bit better as well but don’t anticipate having one before screen planting time. https://www.everythingattachments.com/Tractor-Subsoiler-p/ea-subsoiler-wicked.htm
^this one in particular looks nice based on features. 3 pt connection points are supported on both sides so I wouldn’t have to worry about bending them like I’ve seen people post about on the lighter duty ones, uses a sheer pin to protect the tractor and implement, and the thinness and bevel on the shank seem like they’d cut through the ground better than most others.

I bought my cultipacker from them years ago and am well pleased

bill

 

[Brian662]

Hasn't rained in two weeks here and no rain for the next 10 days, no way I'm planting anything for a while around here.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Hasn't rained in two weeks here and no rain for the next 10 days, no way I'm planting anything for a while around here.

got surprised with over an inch yesterday here in Monticello. Nothin at my land an hour north, and 0.85" 3 hours north at the parents land in itasca county.

 

[Brian662]

got surprised with over an inch yesterday here in Monticello. Nothin at my land an hour north, and 0.85" 3 hours north at the parents land in itasca county.

We had .15" shower on Thursday evening and got home from work yesterday to find 1.5" in the rain gauge. Appeared on radar as a pop up storm and it laid down some serious moisture for 45 minutes according to the neighbor. We'll take it, I figure with the forecast as it stands now we'll be dry as a bone in another week, hopefully without a hard crust.