Sorghum Screen Fail thoughts

[Wind Gypsy]

Feel like going 4 pronged attack on this screen.
1. Plant more spruce if the ones from this spring indicate they are viable in this soil.
2. Let some of the willow and tag alders grow freely just inside of the spruce line
3. Prep a seed bed for sorghum next year starting this fall.
4. Sample some RW MG to see how it holds up (or any variety that is supposed to be more cold/wet tolerant).

John komp sent me an email that EW would work better in wet soil but I feel like it’s less likely to stand up to snow.

 

[omicron1792]

I bought the screening product from green cover. They mix several including sudax, EW, and some regular sorghum that supposedly helps hold up the shorter species. Has done ok.

 

[SD51555]

BHS on one side, Norway on the other.

I'm of no help on annuals in wet soil. I just don't know. However, go with black (not black hills) spruce next go around. Of the spruces, those have been the fastest growers I've seen, and they are meant for wet soil. I'd put them in thick, like every 4' and then cut them away as they begin to touch.

I've got lots of natural black spruce on my property, and it's default state is wet. They come fast when I pour the sunlight to them. In my feature, I've been cutting them down at about 12' because I've got some many good ones coming at 3-5'.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm of no help on annuals in wet soil. I just don't know. However, go with black (not black hills) spruce next go around. Of the spruces, those have been the fastest growers I've seen, and they are meant for wet soil. I'd put them in thick, like every 4' and then cut them away as they begin to touch.

I've got lots of natural black spruce on my property, and it's default state is wet. They come fast when I pour the sunlight to them. In my feature, I've been cutting them down at about 12' because I've got some many good ones coming at 3-5'.

I did see that black spruce are better in wet soils. But woof, a tree every 4’ is a lotta damn trees across 1100’ of screen.

 

[SD51555]

I did see that black spruce are better in wet soils. But woof, a tree every 4’ is a lotta damn trees across 1100’ of screen.

Ooh. Yeah, that would be a lot. It's too bad Itasca shrunk their inventory. If you could get them for 75 cents, I'd tell ya to go for it. They don't carry them anymore by the looks of it. I've never done black spruce bare roots, so no help there either.

 

[Skeeter]

Huh. Sounds familiar.

I think you found part of your answer with Jake's video. Also, on my property, I find that I can't always wait for soil temp when planting sorghums or corn. I get much taller screens when I plant by around June 1st. I've had terrible lodging when planting a monoculture of EW. For better standability I like a mix of plants of different heights like milo, a photo period sorghum, some corn, a sorghum sudan hybrid, etc. I don't think it's likely that water is the issue. One of my plots is in a fairly low area and the only parts that I find are too wet for my mixes are the ones that are still soft and squishy several days after a rain in mid summer. Was solid RCG before I started a plot there. Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[FarmerDan]

Back to the Sorghum-Sundan grass

It’s not grain sorghum. This is the product

Food Plot Screen: Heavy Duty Variety | Northwoods Whitetails, Inc.

How many times have you been "busted" by deer going to or from your stand on or near your food plot. Or, are the deer using your plots fully expos ...

northwoodswhitetails.com

I'm not sure what it is. There's grain sorghum (not this), forage sorghum, sudangrass and the sorgum-sudangrass hybrid. Each has it's own height characteristic. But, that's neither here nor there.
The problem? I think everything is open to consideration. Everything from the seed germination percentage to the planting of that seed including the seed bed into which it was planted. Soil fertility looksnot to be a problem based on the leaf coloration and soil fertility probably won't cause the spotty plant population and height divergence - maybe. Then there's the simazine. But let's assume the rate and application are correct.

That leads me back to seed and how it was seeded and what it was seeded into. My experience says to me varying heights are the result of inconsistent seed placement depth. Could be the reason for the spotty plant population, too. Too deep? Too shallow? And I won't mention (smiley face!) this is the second time I questioned your no-till planter, the first in the thread about triclopyr. But, then too, soil moisture and soil temperature at planting can have some of the same impact.

Still have the seed tag?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Makes sense. I know that seed bed prep and planting depth were issues. Being new to this and having read so much about sorghum being easy to grow I assumed if it had a minimum level of soil contact/coverage it would do better than terrible. It appears I need to be more diligent about the whole process. Thanks for the input everyone.

@FarmerDan i dug up your seed tag thread to find the seed tag

 

[Rit]

 

[FarmerDan]

Makes sense. I know that seed bed prep and planting depth were issues. Being new to this and having read so much about sorghum being easy to grow I assumed if it had a minimum level of soil contact/coverage it would do better than terrible. It appears I need to be more diligent about the whole process. Thanks for the input everyone.

@FarmerDan i dug up your seed tag thread to find the seed tag
View attachment 45628

It's hard to understand what happened for you. There are an awful lot of crop problems blamed on seed. Most are unfounded. But here, based on the skinny evidence, I'm suspicious of the seed - not something I do lightly. I guess the germination percentage (80%) is ok, but it's not great. Lab germination tests are conducted under the most ideal conditions of heat, light and humidity. Such things are rarely found in nature. It's usually too wet, too dry, too hot or too cold.
And a lot can happen to the germination probability from the time it was tested in January, 2022 until you got it in the ground.

Remember, the germination test is from a sample of the lot, not a sample from the bag you bought. What you get might be better or worse.
Weak seed planted into poor conditions planted poorly (I'm sorry) will probably look like a disaster. That 50 lb bag of seed, whatever it is (VNS!) only has 49 lbs of seed and under the best conditions, on average, only 39 pounds (80% of 49 lbs) of seed will germinate. It's easy and credible enough to make a case for a lot less than that.

 

[Rit]

View attachment 45635

Oops I had typed something but didn’t post it I guess. I planted the same product 2 years ago and this is what I got. I fertilized it a lot with straight Nitrogen. This was probably mid July. I got a little more height probably about 9’. It stood great until an early December heavy ice storm. Most of the stalks broke off around 6’ but was still a decent screen. This was planted in heavy clay with a rake.

 

[Buckly]

I used the same mix from Norwoods Whitetails before my spruce were big enough for screening. I had great success with the mix for many years. 10 ft tall and more were common. My planting method was this: Rototill to about 6 inches and 15 ft wide Until nice and fluffy. LOL. Incorporate 12-12-12 with rototiller then broadcast seed with a hand seeder and cultipack . Then spray over the new planting with Simazine. After the plants were 6-12 inches I’d throw on some urea. For my area, this was planted about mid June here in the North Country of NY.

 

[Northwoods Whitetails]

Hey folks , first time here in a few years.
Couple thoughts:

1) This is not sorghum sudan grass, that is pretty much a guarantee failure when snow/ wind hits.
2) This does not like wet ground at all, we recommend Egyptian wheat on damp ground. Although EW doesn’t have the late season stand ability as this does.
3) The actual germ on our tests is 92-95%
The supplier always labels on the low side for some reason. But we pull a germ test once every few weeks and have never seen below 92%.
4) We have found the more nitrogen you pour to this is not always the answer. It may make it grow too fast and become spindly/thin.

Hope that sheds some light on things.
Thanks
John

 

[paleopoint]

If you want to do it annually....give pearl millet a shot. It is cheap, easily broadcasted, and gets to be about 7ft tall. Grows quick too. Give it some urea and it will really thrive.

 

[bigboreblr]

Water problems?

Get a subsoiler. Back you tractor near the road and cut slots towards your screening area. Go farther in every 3 pass. Should help out with your drainage issues.

Added bonus, it's a great prep for trees. My local apple orchard guy swears it's the best single change he's done to his orchard prep.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

If you want to do it annually....give pearl millet a shot. It is cheap, easily broadcasted, and gets to be about 7ft tall. Grows quick too. Give it some urea and it will really thrive.

I’ll do whatever I can to get a working screen short of paying for a wall of already tall enough evergreens.. I did read a bit about pear millet today and everything says they handle dry well but not wet so I’d be concerned that they would have the same struggles.

I drive by walls of common reeds that are 7’ tall all the time and standing through the winter. Makes me wonder if getting that in place of the current reed canary grass wouldn’t be a possible solution.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Water problems?

Get a subsoiler. Back you tractor near the road and cut slots towards your screening area. Go farther in every 3 pass. Should help out with your drainage issues.

Added bonus, it's a great prep for trees. My local apple orchard guy swears it's the best single change he's done to his orchard prep.

I had considered this. I’m not sure if the ground is laying too low for it to help but it may be worth a try. I think I’ll ask some of my neighbors that farm if they think it would help. It seems like something that you want to make sure you size correctly for your tractor.. I see everything attachments makes one for double the $ of the cheaper ones but with shear pins so you don’t wreck the implement or your tractor.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I was going to say, I would think the Reed Canary Grass would give you a pretty decent screen. At least I would let a section of it grow next year to test it and find out.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I was going to say, I would think the Reed Canary Grass would give you a pretty decent screen. At least I would let a section of it grow next year to test it and find out.

It doesn’t. Snow nocks it down quick.

 

[trapperm]

I have had the same luck as you with the screen but mine was in a much drier environment. Some of it grew and the stand was very thin.

As this happened to me last year- I planted 2 different ways in the same area just to make sure I wasn’t messing that part up. 27-0-24 at planting, 46-0-0 when the stuff was around knee high.

You’ll see that the 10 rows or so of corn I planted as a backup ended up being a better screen. In this case I think that mine was due to some very inopportune moisture as where I emptied a lawn roller (40gal of water) was a patch that did the best. I’m going to run the stuff through a single row planter next year to vary the depth and see what it likes best. In the attached pics, seed
was planted to 1” and also broadcasted and drug. Both methods appeared to be the same for germination in my case.