If starting from a blank slate and evaluating potential areas to create habitat, does anyone consider snow depth before and after. For example do you consider the potential depth of snow in a future winter food plot area. Is there consideration in snow depth in likely path to and from winter bed to winter food sources.
Snow depth
- Thread starter JP14
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rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Not so much depth of snow but what plants to use i.e. taller and stick above the snow. Snow depth on travel routes, not a concern mostly unless you live on Tug Hill. They tend to beat down a path the same trails after every snow fall as long as the food holds out so they pack it down even when several feet of snow off in the woods. Once you get more than a 14-15" of loose snow they do tend to give up on clover and shorter stuff.
But have seen them out in old hay fields that are really wind swept and blows most of the snow off to the edges. So you get drifts along a woodline but out in the center is not too bad. A hard crust on top from freezing rain pretty much sucks for all concerned however.
Snow depth is a consideration for tree tubes or fencing height though.
But have seen them out in old hay fields that are really wind swept and blows most of the snow off to the edges. So you get drifts along a woodline but out in the center is not too bad. A hard crust on top from freezing rain pretty much sucks for all concerned however.
Snow depth is a consideration for tree tubes or fencing height though.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
We have been lucky here for a long time, usually doesn't get that deep like it used too. If it does it doesn't normally stay long enough to be a real problem.
The deer here have brassicas ate up by this time of year. I try and keep my screening on fruit trees at least three feet to keep rabbits on top of snow from girdling my trees.
The deer here have brassicas ate up by this time of year. I try and keep my screening on fruit trees at least three feet to keep rabbits on top of snow from girdling my trees.
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
You can't control depth of snow and it has been so variable in recent years, it is almost a moot point to worry about that ever. Plant height, as mentioned above, is a bigger consideration IMO. Now that said, don't put a plot on the prevailing downwind end of a long open area, as snow will build up there when the wind blows.
j-bird
Moderator
I consider the depth of snow in 2 cases.
#1 - I'm not buying property in Chummers area....300+ inches of snow a year - man's got to be crazy!
#2 - When caging plants from deer browse. I don't want the deer to be able to stand on a snow pack and eat my trees!
I don't get what I would consider significant amounts of snow, so as such I don't worry about it much.
#1 - I'm not buying property in Chummers area....300+ inches of snow a year - man's got to be crazy!
#2 - When caging plants from deer browse. I don't want the deer to be able to stand on a snow pack and eat my trees!
I don't get what I would consider significant amounts of snow, so as such I don't worry about it much.
The area I'm at is in NE SD. Rolling hills in the prairie pothole region. Lots of sloughs and lakes but not always much for trees. We've experienced years with greater than 85" of snow. I've located about 10 different areas that I'd like to do improvements on. Some is currently pasture land and some is low production AG land. Therefore a lot of it I wouldn't consider habitat right now.
If starting from a blank canvas is this something one should consider. I'm not just looking at food plots but providing thermal protection, browse, hard and soft mass production, screens etc. While I can't predict or plan everything there are some knows: it will snow and the wind will blow mostly from the north and cause drifts in traditional areas, and other areas because of terrain it will likely not be as deep.
So these areas that the snow is traditionally less deep, would it be beneficial to plant a winter food source there vs some area that is traditionally deeper. Could the use of live snow fences and tree belts be used in coordination with terrain features to reduce snow depth in areas designated for specific purposes like bedding such as rush sloughs? Or not worth the considerations.
If starting from a blank canvas is this something one should consider. I'm not just looking at food plots but providing thermal protection, browse, hard and soft mass production, screens etc. While I can't predict or plan everything there are some knows: it will snow and the wind will blow mostly from the north and cause drifts in traditional areas, and other areas because of terrain it will likely not be as deep.
So these areas that the snow is traditionally less deep, would it be beneficial to plant a winter food source there vs some area that is traditionally deeper. Could the use of live snow fences and tree belts be used in coordination with terrain features to reduce snow depth in areas designated for specific purposes like bedding such as rush sloughs? Or not worth the considerations.
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wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
All things you are considering are on the table and will be sound management practices. Thermal/wind protection is huge! Shelterbelts and living snow fence sounds like a must if you get 85"+. They will surely help to keep snow from areas where you don't want it. Lots of info out there on how to implement them on you property. See the link below from the South Dakota NRCS and also Google "Shelterbelts and thermal protection for wildlife", tons of info out there.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/16/nrcs143_010026.pdf
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/16/nrcs143_010026.pdf
j-bird
Moderator
All I can really recommend is work WITH mother nature as much as you can. If you naturally have sheltered areas - use them....maybe even improve them. Sounds like you got some good ideas and understanding, just have a plan and for the best hunting results consider you hunting access as a priority as to how you layout the property - after all, that is what most of us do this for - hunting deer. Depending on how much ground you have you may not want to protect all of it. You may want to use that deep snow to your advantage if it aligns with your hunting as well.....just something else to keep in mind. I have large open ag fields in my area and I use these "dead zones" as places to blow my scent and I know the mature bucks will avoid these areas unless lured otherwise. These areas of deep snow could serve a similar purpose for you as well.
chummer
5 year old buck +
For 85" I would not worry about it. That much will have little impact on the deer. I grew up hunting an area that gets 120" on average and 9 out of 10 winters it had no impact. The years when it gets over 150" it becomes an issue if there is no melt down. Where I am at now deer live for three to four months on a hard snow pact of 1-5'. I am still trying to figure it out but the deer have certainly figured it out. Evergreens and roads are where they spend their time.
j-bird
Moderator
I wondered if you would chime in. I looked up the average snowfall for my area and it's like 24"......:) I saw this thread and the first thing I thought of was you and all that snow you get.....even made mention of it......that still just floors me!
chummer
5 year old buck +
Unless you live here it is hard to comprehend. I have some work crews in from WI and MI and they are working right on the line of the heavy lake effect. The first day they were here I met with them and they were going to the job site. It was at the start of one of our 24-48" snow falls. I told them they better get there before two or they would not make it. They looked at me like I was stupid, like they didn't know what snow was. Fast forward a few days, the guys tells we he has never seen snow like and it didn't stop for three days. How the hell does anyone live here.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
^^^^ Chummer ISN'T stretching the truth !!! I've worked up in his area. When most folks see/hear a weather report of " white-out conditions " ........ those aren't white-outs. I thought I knew what a " white-out " was too until I went to the Oswego - Pulaski - Tug Hill region of N.Y. Couldn't see 6 feet ......... NOT JOKING. Really scary if in a vehicle and you drive into it.
I have no idea how deer survive there. They migrate out, I guess.
I have no idea how deer survive there. They migrate out, I guess.
Wow, I'll pass on that. We had a few winters about 15yrs ago with 110+". I've hated winter since than.
We do experience some migration sometimes during rifle season, so I want to slow that but not risk trapping them. They are a survivor species but everything has limits. It's a crazy game of chess when we take on mother nature.
I appreciate all the perspectives.
We do experience some migration sometimes during rifle season, so I want to slow that but not risk trapping them. They are a survivor species but everything has limits. It's a crazy game of chess when we take on mother nature.
I appreciate all the perspectives.
Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
Plus, with all that snow the growing season is just all that much shorter. I live close to chummer and we get above average snowfall each winter not because of lake effect but because of elevation. It is typical for us to have snow on the ground in the mountains into early May. There have even been springs with so much snow that I was able to track a spring gobbler after it walked away from my morning set up.
We get a crazy mud season in May...can't get into the fields or garden until end of May or June...and end up with a very short window to plant and grow anything before the snow comes again in the fall.
I can't even imagine what chummer has to deal with in terms of spring snow melt and the mud season he must have.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
The craziest thing we saw when we first got to Oswego in late summer was that in September, those long 12' flags that flex in the breeze started to appear on vehicles and motorcycles. Each one had a unique mark on it. I asked what the " new fad " was with the flags. I was told ..." that's so when it starts to snow, the guys can find their vehicles at the end of the shift. " :eek: They weren't kidding. I saw them being tracked down after work on many days. They had whole crews of front-end loaders and dump trucks just to clear the parking lots so we could get out to go home. Those loaders and trucks worked around the clock during peak snow season.
You can find Chummer in an igloo just east of I-81 in Northern N.Y. state.
You can find Chummer in an igloo just east of I-81 in Northern N.Y. state.
chummer
5 year old buck +
Luckily no mud. I am on a pile of rocks. Sucks for planting but no mud. What elevation are you at and how late do you get frosts? We get frost into June and appples peek about May 25th thus our sporadic apple production.
chummer
5 year old buck +
I was up last weekend to look for some apples. They are located on the property line. The property line was marked a few years ago and the ribbons are 8-10' up in the trees. It was marked in March! Bows I would question you saw them on motorcycles, but it takes a strange dude to live up there. Not to criticize NJ guys and down state guys but they buy land up here and put a trailer or camper on it. After their first winter they return to find a pancake. Happens every year. Second mild winter in a row(120"). Only three months to go!
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