Septic problem

[4wanderingeyes]

So last night my septic alarm went off, I shut the alarm off, and this morning I went and checked and my tank was full, and my filter/basket was popped up, and allowed debris into the second tank. The pump was turning, but wasn’t pumping. Called someone to come and put a new pump in. Still not pumping, got hot water pumped it towards the mound, plugged, also found the seep hole was plugged, so the water couldn’t drain back from the mound manifold. Pipes in the mound were frozen solid, and it pumped debris into the mound, and the drain holes were plugged. This is a 3 year old septic. At this point I am in it for a pump out, a new pump, someone coming tomorrow to try to steam the pipes open and clean them out as well as possible, if it don’t work, I will be digging one side of the mound up in the spring to replace the pipes. And until then, my only option is to have the tank pumped out when full, which is only 1300 gallons. At best every week until the ground thaws. I am just really hoping when they steam thaw them tomorrow the drain holes in the pipes open up and at least will drain enough to make me until spring.

Yup, pretty shitty day.

 

[Buckly]

I don’t know much about the system you’re describing but, sounds to me like a design error.

 

[roymunson]

We do septic cleaning and sewer/drain cleaning for a living. That is a crappy day.
We opened our first frozen line of the year last weekend. I anticipate more coming. It takes time to thaw things out.


It sounds like a drip system coming out of the lift station, correct?
probably 1 1/2" or 2" line into the mound to dose the leach/filtrate into the mound? Might be worth the money to try to call a concrete company and see if any of their big heated blankets are available to get it thawed down. I'm guessing you don't have access into the discharge end? and that multiple manifolds are probably frozen.

do hydro jetting with hot water if we can get access into the line, which is tough with forced lines and small lines, but it may be worth checking out.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

It's not a design error.

My conventional septic system drain field failed about ten years ago. Right after deer season I found toilet paper on the ground by the tank. Had the tank pumped and water ran back from the drain field. Had to put a mound syste3m in the following year after the ground thawed and firmed up.

Have you been cleaning your filter twice a year? I clean mine in May and October. Good way to remember is first and last grass cutting.
If you can, replumb your wash machine so it doesn't go into the septic tank for the rest of the winter. That will take some of the water load off the tank. If you have a garbage disposal in your kitchen, I'd stop using it. It's convenient, but not helping the situation.

Good Luck

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

What is the mound? We use conventional septic systems in my builds but I’m not familiar with that term here.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Don't know what state you're in, but in Wisconsin, a soil test is done to determine the depth of mottling in the soil. That determines the high water level.

If the depth of mottling is too shallow the drain field isn't put in the ground but on top of it. The "mound" is made up of a certain grade and type of sand. The pipes from the tank are buried in the mound and the effluent is pumped up to the mound.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Don't know what state you're in, but in Wisconsin, a soil test is done to determine the depth of mottling in the soil. That determines the high water level.

If the depth of mottling is too shallow the drain field isn't put in the ground but on top of it. The "mound" is made up of a certain grade and type of sand. The pipes from the tank are buried in the mound and the effluent is pumped up to the mound.

Interesting. All of ours is sub grade. If the soil doesn’t perc the site is essentially void and either a new area on the lot is tested or if there isn’t another site the lot is basically unbuildable. There would be some exceptions that involve elaborately engineered systems that price out the feasibility of most lots.

 

[TWIG]

Obvious error on whatever excavating company built your septic system. I've designed and installed my fare share.

You could have topsoil trucked in and add another foot of insulation on top of your mound. Not sure how long the earth would take to thaw out your pipes or where you'd find unthawed dirt this time of year. Maybe someone local has screened topsoil that they keep indoors.

If it is frozen, ain't no way I'd be digging anything up. Pipes just weren't buried deep enough.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Just a little more info

It has been a very mild winter compared to most, but the last week and a half has been highs in the single digits or negative temps for highs, lows from negative single digits to -22. We have about 2 inches of snow on the ground. But the main issue was that the septic filter was plugged, and popped out of its holder, and a bunch of crap, debris went into the second tank. The pump picked up some of the trash and sent it to the mound, and some of it plugged a drain back port that should allow the pipes in the mound to drain back to the tank so there isnt water in the pipes when the pump isnt running. There for no water, equals nothing to freeze. Well that drain hole was plugged with debris, and the water would stay in the piped, during that cold weather, the pipes in the drain field froze, the tank was full and couldnt empty, so the pump just kept running and trying to push water into frozen pipes, and burnt out the pump. The pipes in the drain field have 3/16" holes on the bottom to drain, instead of 1/4" that they use to use, because of a Wisconsin state law. Anyhow the debris that was pushed up in the lines has plugged the 3/16" drain holes in the pipes, and the water couldnt go anywhere.

Now the plan is, at the end of these pipes there is a cap, they are going to run a hot steam line into the end cap of these pipes to thaw from the end side of these pipes back to the tank. The water and debris that is frozen in these pipes should push backwards towards the end caps they are feeding the hose into, and clean out some of them 3/16" holes. Hopefully enough of them to allow it to work ontil spring, when it can be cleaned out better, or pull the pipes out and put new one in.


As for some of your questions, I havent been cleaning out the filter, because I honestly didnt know there was one there. I never had one in any of my other septics, and the installer never said anything to me. But now I know. I also havent had the tanks pumped out, again, I was never told I needed too, but now I know. My daughter has also been tossing stuff in there that she wasnt suppose to, but now she knows. It will be an expensive learning lesson for me.

All this happened now, and I am glad it happened now, rather then in a few week, because I would have been gone on vacation, and my house sitter wouldnt have know what to do, and could have ended up backing up into the house, and my yard.

Some other things that I need to change, I have a regenerating water filtration system that uses about 300 gallons 2 times a week, and dumps into the septic, I need to have that dumped elsewhere, or bypassed, now it is bypassed. I also have a water softener, bypassed now as well, but will need to figure something out with that as well. I dont have a garbage disposal, I was also told I may want to see about not dumping the washing machine in it as well. Not much happens in the middle of winter up here with such things, so hoping to get by until spring, which up here is usually in May.

 

[roymunson]

What is the mound? We use conventional septic systems in my builds but I’m not familiar with that term here.

When the soil tests don't show what the health dept likes for filtration the essentially build an above ground filtration system with different aggregates. Sand, pea gravel, etc. They often do it in heavy clay so you don't have leach lines acting like water troughs holding water that won't drain. They're great in theory, but will often leave a big wet spot on the downhill side and leave the homeowner frustrated.

Cleaning the filter in spring and fall is a good idea. We usually tell folks do do it at daylight savings time changes in the spring and fall.

 

[roymunson]

Don't beat yourself up on the filter thing. You'd be surprised how many folks call and when we ask them when they've last pumped it they say "I bought it from dad in 96 and he never had it pumped, so I didn't either"

We often have to go locate them and have even had folks unknowingly build outbuildings over the top of them.

Water softners and laundry are two big water generators that can fill you up.
They're also notoriously bad for the bug life in the tank. Salt flush and laundry soap will kill a lot of bug and keep things from breaking down correctly. When things are working properly, your system can overcome it. They used to discharge it to the creek, but now they want it filtered and thru the tank, most times.

The lack of snow cover for insulation is hurting people with frozen lines.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Wow...the installer should have told you about the filter.

Also sounds like the float switch for the high level alarm in the pump chamber may not be set at the proper height.

As far as when to have the system pumped, the state or county should have sent you a notice. All septic systems need to be inspected every three years. That's not a choice it's a state law. In order to inspect the system it needs to be pumped out.

Make sure who ever cleans your tanks out does a good job on the pump chamber or you'll still have crap in there that can be pumped into the drain field.

 

[roymunson]

Wow...the installer should have told you about the filter.

Also sounds like the float switch for the high level alarm in the pump chamber may not be set at the proper height.

As far as when to have the system pumped, the state or county should have sent you a notice. All septic systems need to be inspected every three years. That's not a choice it's a state law. In order to inspect the system it needs to be pumped out.

Make sure who ever cleans your tanks out does a good job on the pump chamber or you'll still have crap in there that can be pumped into the drain field.

Its crazy how different differing states are in how they do this. Many counties in Ohio want you to inspect it, but don't have the manpower to enforce that.

There are lots of folks who are too grossed out to think about cleaning the filter. They won't hear what you're saying when yo do tell them.

I get the importance of it, but I'm in the industry. Admittedly, I used to roll my eyes at changing furnace filters every quarter... But now I know better.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Its crazy how different differing states are in how they do this. Many counties in Ohio want you to inspect it, but don't have the manpower to enforce that.

There are lots of folks who are too grossed out to think about cleaning the filter. They won't hear what you're saying when yo do tell them.

I get the importance of it, but I'm in the industry. Admittedly, I used to roll my eyes at changing furnace filters every quarter... But now I know better.

Those same people have probably changed a few diapers in their life. Not much different.

 

[somich]

So last night my septic alarm went off, I shut the alarm off, and this morning I went and checked and my tank was full, and my filter/basket was popped up, and allowed debris into the second tank. The pump was turning, but wasn’t pumping. Called someone to come and put a new pump in. Still not pumping, got hot water pumped it towards the mound, plugged, also found the seep hole was plugged, so the water couldn’t drain back from the mound manifold. Pipes in the mound were frozen solid, and it pumped debris into the mound, and the drain holes were plugged. This is a 3 year old septic. At this point I am in it for a pump out, a new pump, someone coming tomorrow to try to steam the pipes open and clean them out as well as possible, if it don’t work, I will be digging one side of the mound up in the spring to replace the pipes. And until then, my only option is to have the tank pumped out when full, which is only 1300 gallons. At best every week until the ground thaws. I am just really hoping when they steam thaw them tomorrow the drain holes in the pipes open up and at least will drain enough to make me until spring.

Yup, pretty shitty day.

I didn't see this posted here but, if it was sorry for the repeat. We didn't use this company, just an example. You being in Wisconsin there has to be similar companies there.

We've used heat blankets to thaw ground for excavation in frozen ground and to drive the frost out of ground to pour concrete. I don't know if this would solve your problem or help, just an idea.

Ground Thaw mats for building, excavation, road construction, and utilities

Frozen ground thawed below the frost line in only 48-72 hours, even in brutal weather conditions. We dry the ground as it thaws, removing moisture.

digready.com

 

[somich]

Sorry, I think the one I linked is electric, the ones that were used at our jobs were hydronic.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I've been sleeping on what the owner of a septic system is supposed to do for inspection/maint. Moved into my current house in 2020 and part of the deal at sale was the previous owner had to pay for a new septic because the existing was non-compliant. A new one got built shortly after we moved in but the designer and contractor never gave us operating/inspection/maint instructions. We've done nothing thus far and have not had any issues..

Any of you guys have a good recommendation for where i should get educated. I had reached out to the excavation company a year ago for input via email and voicemail and got crickets.. The prior owner of my house had a landscaping company and leveraged other deals with both the designer and excavator to cover the costs and I feel like both of them were unhappy with the arrangement.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I was in the same situation, no clear instructions on what to do, but after this week, I got clear instructions on what needs to be done.

In the first tank, there is a filter, pull it out, and hose it off 2-3 times a year. Pump and have the system inspected once every 3 years.
Nothing in the toilets other than toilet paper and pee and poop. No feminine products at all. No wipes, no tissues. Limit grease, wipe pans clean before going in the dishwasher.
If you have a water softener, it shouldnt be draining into the septic. Washing machine, no more than 2 loads in 24 hours, and or 1 load in 12 hours.
Those are about the main things.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I would check with who ever the controlling authority is. Here in WI it's the DNR through the county. I would have to go to the county sanitation manager.
Or get a hold of the designer of your system and ask them where to find the information.
What type of system do you have?

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I was in the same situation, no clear instructions on what to do, but after this week, I got clear instructions on what needs to be done.

In the first tank, there is a filter, pull it out, and hose it off 2-3 times a year. Pump and have the system inspected once every 3 years.
Nothing in the toilets other than toilet paper and pee and poop. No feminine products at all. No wipes, no tissues. Limit grease, wipe pans clean before going in the dishwasher.
If you have a water softener, it shouldnt be draining into the septic. Washing machine, no more than 2 loads in 24 hours, and or 1 load in 12 hours.
Those are about the main things.

How did your repair go? I hope you don't have to dig anything up in the spring shit gets costly.