S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
Is the area somewhat wet or shaded?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Self Terminating, fast decomposing, small and hard seeded plants
- Thread starter BenAllgood
- Start date
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
It's definitely not wet. And, it's sunny for most of the day.
birdog
5 year old buck +
I fall planted ww/wr fall of 2018 and then I let it terminate on it's own in 2019 when I reseeded a clover mix and then mowed. Plot was getting thinner and weeds were getting thicker so I was trying to squeeze a few more years out of it before I rotated the plot. This method completely rejuvinated my 5 year old plot. I plan on spring planting wr/ww next year and mowing it down several times in the spring as you have suggested. Am I understanding you correctly that by doing this the wr/ww will never go to seed and will die on it's own?
YJ is this a viable way to continue, maybe even doubling the life of a clover plot before completely rotating? Is buckwheat a better option for what I am trying to do which is extending the life of my clover plot while adding OM?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I'm not sure I completely following what you are asking.
For perennial clover, I never plant in the spring. It is just asking for weeds. I plant in the fall with the WR nurse crop. The WR is the attractant in the fall, and the clover barely germinates and unless conditions are just right, I don't get much clover growth in the fall. Warm season weed seeds need warmer soil temps to germinate. The clover and WR are already germinated. Both begin to grow in the spring. Perennial clover is now putting much of its energy into developing a root system rather than top growth. The WR takes up space and has a chemical effect on the germination of weed seeds. I want the WR to grow and shade out weeds. As spring progresses, the WR (if planted thick) is not just shading out weeds, but is starting to impact the clover. By mowing it high, it sets back the WR without killing it. This releases the clover and it really takes off. Both WR and Clover are now shading out weeds. Depending on how frequently and when you mow the rye, it may still go to seed but be much shorter. The WR will die naturally in the summer as it is an annual, but by then the clover has taken over the field.
That is my first stage to start with as clean a clover field as possible.
Stage 2 is to tolerate weeds. After that first spring, I only mow in the fall right before the season. Each year the summer weeds get worse, but many broadleaf weeds are as good or better deer food than the clover itself. Mowing does nothing to control grasses. Grasses and broadleaf weeds just help shade the clover in the heat of summer. Deer will still use that field and the weeds don't bother them at all. Just before the season, as nights get cool and rain is more frequent, I mow the cover. This releases it from the weeds. You would be amazed how the clover dominates the field again. Each year the weeds get a little worse, I don't care.
Stage 3: I usually get 7+ years out of Durana before the weeds really dominate and there is little clover. At that point, if I don't have time to rotate, I simply spray with 1 qt/ac glyphosate. This top kills the clover and kills the grasses. I then use a seed drill and drill radish and WR into the field. I've posted the pic of the clover filling in around the radish on a number of threads. Timing is critical. You must do this gly treatment in the fall with rain in the forecast. The radish/WR germinates, gets a little taller than the clover and then the clover bounces back from the root system. I can get another 3 or 4 years out of the field before I need to rotate.
Thanks,
Jack
birdog
5 year old buck +
My clover/chicory plot completely rebounded after I broadcast ww/wr. I was prepared to terminate the clover plot and rotate with a brassica mix when I decided to wait one more year before I rotated. I decided to broadcast ww/wr to add OM and use up nitrogen until I could get the brassica mix in.
I was shocked the following spring to see how well the clover was doing under the ww/wr mix so I let it go. After mowing the ww/wr down the clover really took off. It appears to me the life of this plot has been extended, I think because of the ww/wr.
So what I was asking is did the ww/wr mix in my clover plot provide that much of a benefit to completely rejuvinate my plot or was it just a coincidence? It actually looks better than it has in a few years so I gotta believe it did.
Your response above actually answered my question however I felt I should offer a clarification just in case.
I was shocked the following spring to see how well the clover was doing under the ww/wr mix so I let it go. After mowing the ww/wr down the clover really took off. It appears to me the life of this plot has been extended, I think because of the ww/wr.
So what I was asking is did the ww/wr mix in my clover plot provide that much of a benefit to completely rejuvinate my plot or was it just a coincidence? It actually looks better than it has in a few years so I gotta believe it did.
Your response above actually answered my question however I felt I should offer a clarification just in case.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
How old was the plot and what kind of clover did you plant in it?
In general, any monoculture uses particular soil nutrients. Over time, plants in the monoculture don't do as well because they are using the same nutrients faster than they are being replenished. Other plants that use a different mix of nutrients can out-compete them. Legumes, like clover have another factor in that the fix N from the atmosphere. As individual plants die, they release the excess N they have not used and it becomes available in the soil for other plants. Grasses are big consumers of N. So, there are two things going on in a clover field. Clover is "wearing out" specific nutrients while stockpiling others that make the field even more attractive to grass invasion and other weeds as well.
If you look at nature you rarely see a monoculture and if you do, it doesn't last long. You will see particular species that dominate a field, but not a monoculture. When you have the right mix of plants and don't till, nature cycles the nutrients. Some plants mine certain minerals and then release them when they die to provide them to other plants. Dead vegetation is consumed by microorganisms in the sol releasing different nutrients. Animals consume some of the plants but defecate other nutrients back in to the soil.
Conventional farming methods use a put and take method transporting, at lest the major (P, N, and K) minerals, and sometimes second tier like sulfur and boron, from other locations. Monocultures are planted because it is easy to build harvest equipment for a single species and they are harvested.
I don't know enough about the details in your case to say exactly what happened. A young field struggling with weeds for establishment that is mowed at just the right time in bloom can spread a lot more clover seed back into the field. Depending on weather and other conditions, and if you used herbicides, the clover may have been favored.
In the end, any monoculture will "wear out" a field. You can rotate to other crops or mix crops. Adding WR/WW to clover is mixing and that helps. Planting clover with chicory is another way to mix. Chicory is a perennial and does not need to replanted like WR/WW do.
Best of luck,
Jack
bornagain62511
5 year old buck +
I have a related but slightly different questions. what is the fastest maturing and earliest self terminating plant I could plant in the spring as a nurse crop? I was thinking something like oats. are there any variety of oats that are faster maturing and earlier at self terminating than other varieties? or is there a different kind of plant that would act as a nurse crop and self terminate even sooner than oats? thanks!
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
Buckwheat is probably the quickest, and shortest life cycle. I think most of your cereal grains will live until mid summer.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
If you are talking about a nurse crop for clover, buckwheat won't do well. It is very fast germinating and growing. Your best bet is to plant in the fall with a cereal grain. I like winter rye because of its soil improvement characteristics and the chemical effect it has on weed germination, but if you don't plant it very light (which I don't) it requires spring mowing to release the clover. If you have fertile soil and don't mow and plant thick it can get very tall. Oats typically don't over winter. This is the best method for planting clover when summer weeds are a problem during establishment. If you can't mow in the spring, I'd suggest WW as a nurse crop for a fall plant. It does not grow as tall and if you don't plant it real heavy, you won't need to release the clover.
Since you mention oats, I'm presuming you are trying to spring plant perennial clover. If you are in an area were summer weeds are not a big concern, this can work, but unless you use selective herbicides, you will have more weeds sooner. Keep in mind that I'm a very weed tolerant guy when it comes to clover. Deer don't benefit from magazine cover monoculture of clover any more than an ugly weedy clover field. The reason I try to start with a weed free field is simple economics. Eventually, any perennial clover field will get so many weed and a small enough amount of clover that it needs to be rotated. Starting with a weed free field means it is more years before I need to deal with that field again.
One other technique for spring planted annual clover is to mix it with an annual clover like Berseem. The annual clover is fast germinating and takes up space from weeds while the perennial clover is putting down its root system. So, if you are going to plant perennial clover in the spring consider a light mix of oats with Berseem, Patriot White, and Durana. Berseem and the light mix of oats (say 30 lbs/ac) will act as the nurse crop. Pat White is a faster establishing but shorter lived perennial clover. Durana is a long-lived drought resistant perennial clover but it is slow to establish.
bornagain62511, Consider including your location or USDA zone in your profile. I'm not sure where you are at, so substitute the Pat White and Durana with whatever clovers are appropriate for your area. They work well in mine.
Thanks,
Jack
bornagain62511
5 year old buck +
Thanks Jack. I"m in southwest Wisconsin. I know establishing perennial clover with winter rye in August works great around here. I was thinking about a nurse crop with Winfred Brassica or Rutabagas which are long season brassicas. I've had some success with winter rye and winfred planted in May other years, but this year we planted winter rye with rutabagas and the rye is not going "dormant" as quickly and it actually overtook the rutabagas. I was wondering if oats would be a better nurse crop for rutabagas since they mature and die out. the rye is still going strong now. we planted late April this year. one plot the rutabagas are doing ok, the rest of them the rye has taken over and the rutabagas are basically a total loss
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
In your case, oats, or winter wheat would be best, planted at about 1 bushel per acre.
