Scionwood, how long will it last?

[Charles Clear]

Long story short, a farmer at a farm I hunt decided to cut down a few trees. A couple of them were great trees to hunt by. Crabapples in a pasture mostly. Since the trees are going down as we speak, can I take scions now, and will they last until the spring? There is no talking the farmer out of eliminating the trees, so this would be my only option. I would definitely wax the scion and put them in the fridge in a damp paper towel. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[sandbur]

Long story short, a farmer at a farm I hunt decided to cut down a few trees. A couple of them were great trees to hunt by. Crabapples in a pasture mostly. Since the trees are going down as we speak, can I take scions now, and will they last until the spring? There is no talking the farmer out of eliminating the trees, so this would be my only option. I would definitely wax the scion and put them in the fridge in a damp paper towel. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

Seal in plastic ziplock or vacuum seal. Separate fridge from other fruit.


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[Charles Clear]

Thank you Sandbur! I have a foodsaver at home. I will vacuum them up. I appreciate it!

 

[yoderjac]

The key is moisture content. If they are too damp they can get moldy. Some tree scions mold quicker than others. If they are too dry they can die. I would seal the cuts with wax or Doc Farwell's before bagging them. If they are cutting down the trees, my advise would be to take 10x more scions than you need and store them in multiple packages. You don't have your zone listed in your profile, but this is especially true if you are in the north and grafting time may be a while.

I also had some luck grafting early indoors last year. I've got a setup for growing trees from nuts indoors in rootmakers under lights. I was able to get some M111 (best rootstock for my area) shipped early. I bench grafted the root stock as soon as it arrived. I put it in my cold room for a week or two so it could heal and then planted it in 3 gal rootmakers and put them under lights. Come spring I acclimated them and grew them out on my deck. I had planned to plant them this fall but did not get a chance before hunting season. I'm overwintering them in the barn and will plant them before spring. This thread has some pics of the overwintering at the bottom: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/roottrapper-bags-over-winter.11508

Thanks,

Jack

 

[greyphase]

Do what Bur says and they will be fine.

 

[Barndog56]

This reminds me, I have some scions still in the fridge from last January. I should probably check on them.......

 

[cavey]

Last year I had the same thing happen, saw an awesome tree and marked it on a phone app, planned on asking about taking scion in the spring. Drove by it and the guy had pruned it to the stump only thing left was large stumpy limbs - zero branches. He had done it within a week and it had snowed a ton so I thought there might be hope. I stopped in and asked. The tree limbs & branches and all were under a foot of snow on a burn pile. I dug them out and snipped some scion - sealed the ends, damp paper towel and a zip lock bag - into the fridge - months ahead of when I normally do them in late spring. I did take extra scion but they were all viable when I grafted them. Moisture/sealing the cut ends is key. I took mine off of a pile of branches lying on the ground for maybe a week or better - yours should be fine.

 

[NE PA QDM]

Wax them good and seal them up. I think they will be ok. Agree with above advice of taking a bunch extra.

 

[PoorSand]

Not sure if this helps, but here's what I'm thinking about scion storage at this time of year. I will have more scions than I need, so I can experiment. It sounds like you might have enough to experiment with too.

I have always stored mine in the refrigerator because that's what I was told to do when I started out grafting. I never quite understood why the refrigerator rather than the freezer though. When I cut them off the trees, they are frozen and would have remained frozen in nature for a longer period of time. It seems to me that letting them thaw out way before I use them allows the decay process to begin and exposes them to mold risk. This year, I think I'll try storing some in the refrigerator and some others in the freezer at 20 degrees and see how they compare. My freezer is a heck of a lot warmer environment than what the scions would endure on the trees here. I think I'll thaw out the freezer stored ones a week before I use them and see how they do versus the ones that were refrigerated the whole time.

 

[NE PA QDM]

I always thought the strong recommendation to keep scions from freezing was illogical as clearly they freeze on the trees. Really looking forward to hearing your results next year. I love a good experiment, especially when it proves prevailing wisdom dead wrong.

 

[Chainsaw]

Is It possible to also take the roots of the cut down trees and replant them as is or maybe even divide them into a couple of root masses and replant as a way of reproducing the cut down tree?

 

[cavey]

You can use root sections as root stock, shoots with a section of roots dug out and cut off work great but just digging out roots and dividing them I dont think will work.

 

[PoorSand]

Adding on to what Cavey just said, and which I agree with... When I've dug up roots with no shoot attached, I've potted them and left about 1" stick out above the soil. With plenty of watering over the summer, some have sent up new growth shoots from the portion of the root above ground level in the pot. I fall planted those.

 

[cavey]

As far as freezing the scion - and Im guessing here, its more about temperature stability and not stressing the cut scion any more than one has too with multiple freeze/thawings (even though we know branches go through many cycles during the winter with temp changes and direct sun light). I would in general say there is a difference with a tree/branches in nature freeze thawing versus cut scion sections just due to the fact that not being cut from the tree - the tree still can provide moisture to the branches and new growth areas we take our scion from. I think the answers is simpler....

I would not doubt scion stored frozen then thawed and grafted will work but I would say just talking in the shear volume that fruit growers deal with in harvesting and storing scion that likely over years of doing grafts they have just simply found cold storing them works fine. Freezing in bulk over just cold storage would be a unneeded added expense and hassle. I would say its always easier to work with stuff that is not frozen versus frozen and its probably not any more complicated than that. I would hate to spend hours in a freezer but could deal with hanging out in a fridge like temperature work environment. Same goes with handling the scion 37 degrees versus 0 degrees. Ive found mold is rarely an issue and I have had scion covered with it.

It will be interesting to see what you find in your experiment.

 

[homerj]

Most freezers are much, much colder than 20 degrees. If you have a freezer that is only getting to 20 degrees....that's where I'd keep my beer in the summer

 

[PoorSand]

It looks like the USDA stores backup apple scions in liquid nitrogen. I think that probably means a temperature somewhere below -300F, which is only slightly warmer than what it felt like here last winter when we were visited by the Polar Vortex. https://www.ars.usda.gov/plains-are...yopreservation-of-clonally-propagated-plants/

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Seal in plastic ziplock or vacuum seal. Separate fridge from other fruit.


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Have you vacuum sealed your scion wood in the past and been successful? Theoretically wouldn't this be air tight and ok to store with other fruit? Reason I ask is because I do not have a separate fridge. An my fridge is always loaded with fruit. Guess I could buy a cheap mini fridge...

 

[Telemark]

I killed a bunch of scions by freezing them. Accidentally threw them in the chest freezer with some fish I had caught. I got them out and moved them to the fridge when I realized what I had done a few weeks later. They were all dead.