Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
Is this safe for clover?
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Safe for clover?
- Thread starter Victor Van Meter
- Start date
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
Great, thanks. My heads starts spinning when I read those labels and the people at RK yesterday weren’t much help. I will order a jug.
VV
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VV
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Is this safe for clover?
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24D is not safe for clover but 24DB is safe.
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
Just got a phone call from RK, they cancelled my order because they no longer handle that chemical.
VV
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VV
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
If you are ordering small amounts on-line and don't mind paying shipping, Keystone carries most stuff like that: https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...lon-76?zenid=f9c2d1b41f6f953417b9a6ff4388ec0b. They are a bit pricey when you include shipping.
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
Yeah, I found them and they are still cheaper than my local co-op, even with shipping. Probably be my route if I can’t find a better option.
VV
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VV
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I've got a better option. Weed tolerance! I found that unless you are dealing with a specific problematic weed, weeds, in general, are not a problem in clover fields and often beneficial. We tend to look at farm fields and think that is what our food plots should look like. That is how I started. Since, I've learned that deer use very weedy clover fields just as much if not more than monocultures of clover. Many weeds are more attractive and beneficial to deer than any crop we plant. So, here is the approach I evolved to:
First, I use best practices to establish perennial clover by planting only in the fall with a WR nurse crop. The following spring, Each time the WR hits a foot or so, I mow it back to 6"-8" depending on the type of clover and conditions. This slowly releases the clover over time and the WR helps fight weeds both chemically and by taking up space and resources. I use gly just after planting. I have success with through and mow as well as min-till techniques.
After that, I just mow the clover once in the fall, right before the season. The cool nights and fall rain favor the clover. During mid-summer when you look at the field from the edge, you won't think there was clover in it. It just looks like a field of weeds. You almost need to get on your hands and knees and move the weeds to the side to see the clover. The weeds actually help shade and protect the clover from the heat of summer. When I mow in the fall and conditions favor clover, it really bounces back and looks like a clover field again. Each year, the field has more an more weeds and less and less clover in the fall. This is natural as more N is fixed into the soil and N-seeking plants like grasses take over
Depending on clover variety after 7 to 10 years the field needs refurbished. I've I have time that fall, I'll rotate it into an N-seeking crop for a year and then start over with clover. If I don't I'll refurbish the field. I like to do this in the fall with a good rain in the near-term forecast. I'll mow the field and suppress the clover. I've tried bushogging it flat so the bushhog is almost scalping and I'd tried spraying with 1 qt/ac gly. I think I like the gly method better as it lasts a bit longer. I'll then take my no-till drill and drill radish or WR into the field. The gly top-kills the clover long enough for the radish or WR (both N-seekers) to germinate and get ahead of the clover. It is also strong enough to kill all grasses and many broadleaf weeds.
I've posted these pics on other threads but I'll post them again here for new folks:
You can see how the clover bounces back and fills in around the radish when favorable condition occur in the fall. The radish is good for the soil and uses up some of the excess N as does the WR.
This lets me get a few more years out of the field before I need to do a full rotation and then go back to clover.
I probably would not use the method with glyphosate suppression if I was in a farming area where the weeds have developed gly resistance. Weed tolerance can be used anywhere.
Thanks,
Jack
First, I use best practices to establish perennial clover by planting only in the fall with a WR nurse crop. The following spring, Each time the WR hits a foot or so, I mow it back to 6"-8" depending on the type of clover and conditions. This slowly releases the clover over time and the WR helps fight weeds both chemically and by taking up space and resources. I use gly just after planting. I have success with through and mow as well as min-till techniques.
After that, I just mow the clover once in the fall, right before the season. The cool nights and fall rain favor the clover. During mid-summer when you look at the field from the edge, you won't think there was clover in it. It just looks like a field of weeds. You almost need to get on your hands and knees and move the weeds to the side to see the clover. The weeds actually help shade and protect the clover from the heat of summer. When I mow in the fall and conditions favor clover, it really bounces back and looks like a clover field again. Each year, the field has more an more weeds and less and less clover in the fall. This is natural as more N is fixed into the soil and N-seeking plants like grasses take over
Depending on clover variety after 7 to 10 years the field needs refurbished. I've I have time that fall, I'll rotate it into an N-seeking crop for a year and then start over with clover. If I don't I'll refurbish the field. I like to do this in the fall with a good rain in the near-term forecast. I'll mow the field and suppress the clover. I've tried bushogging it flat so the bushhog is almost scalping and I'd tried spraying with 1 qt/ac gly. I think I like the gly method better as it lasts a bit longer. I'll then take my no-till drill and drill radish or WR into the field. The gly top-kills the clover long enough for the radish or WR (both N-seekers) to germinate and get ahead of the clover. It is also strong enough to kill all grasses and many broadleaf weeds.
I've posted these pics on other threads but I'll post them again here for new folks:
You can see how the clover bounces back and fills in around the radish when favorable condition occur in the fall. The radish is good for the soil and uses up some of the excess N as does the WR.
This lets me get a few more years out of the field before I need to do a full rotation and then go back to clover.
I probably would not use the method with glyphosate suppression if I was in a farming area where the weeds have developed gly resistance. Weed tolerance can be used anywhere.
Thanks,
Jack
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
I've got a better option. Weed tolerance! I found that unless you are dealing with a specific problematic weed, weeds, in general, are not a problem in clover fields and often beneficial. We tend to look at farm fields and think that is what our food plots should look like. That is how I started. Since, I've learned that deer use very weedy clover fields just as much if not more than monocultures of clover. Many weeds are more attractive and beneficial to deer than any crop we plant. So, here is the approach I evolved to:
First, I use best practices to establish perennial clover by planting only in the fall with a WR nurse crop. The following spring, Each time the WR hits a foot or so, I mow it back to 6"-8" depending on the type of clover and conditions. This slowly releases the clover over time and the WR helps fight weeds both chemically and by taking up space and resources. I use gly just after planting. I have success with through and mow as well as min-till techniques.
After that, I just mow the clover once in the fall, right before the season. The cool nights and fall rain favor the clover. During mid-summer when you look at the field from the edge, you won't think there was clover in it. It just looks like a field of weeds. You almost need to get on your hands and knees and move the weeds to the side to see the clover. The weeds actually help shade and protect the clover from the heat of summer. When I mow in the fall and conditions favor clover, it really bounces back and looks like a clover field again. Each year, the field has more an more weeds and less and less clover in the fall. This is natural as more N is fixed into the soil and N-seeking plants like grasses take over
Depending on clover variety after 7 to 10 years the field needs refurbished. I've I have time that fall, I'll rotate it into an N-seeking crop for a year and then start over with clover. If I don't I'll refurbish the field. I like to do this in the fall with a good rain in the near-term forecast. I'll mow the field and suppress the clover. I've tried bushogging it flat so the bushhog is almost scalping and I'd tried spraying with 1 qt/ac gly. I think I like the gly method better as it lasts a bit longer. I'll then take my no-till drill and drill radish or WR into the field. The gly top-kills the clover long enough for the radish or WR (both N-seekers) to germinate and get ahead of the clover. It is also strong enough to kill all grasses and many broadleaf weeds.
I've posted these pics on other threads but I'll post them again here for new folks:
You can see how the clover bounces back and fills in around the radish when favorable condition occur in the fall. The radish is good for the soil and uses up some of the excess N as does the WR.
This lets me get a few more years out of the field before I need to do a full rotation and then go back to clover.
I probably would not use the method with glyphosate suppression if I was in a farming area where the weeds have developed gly resistance. Weed tolerance can be used anywhere.
Thanks,
Jack
My problem is pig weed and my local co-op guy said I could do clover for a few years and spray to kill what grows and hopefully be long enough to kill what is in the seed bank already in the ground.
I am always up for options though.
VV
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Rit
5 year old buck +
A short while ago I was on the same train as Jack and many others that weeds didn’t bother me. That’s just not true anymore. Although deer will browse many of the broadleaf weeds that grow in clover, when I plant something I want it to be what I plant not 20% weeds. Ragweed does zero good in November.
Take clover in my area. Deer will dig thru the snow to eat clover and eat it to the dirt. I have cut down on the acres planted for more cover. I need what I plant to grow without losing a bunch of space to weeds.
Take clover in my area. Deer will dig thru the snow to eat clover and eat it to the dirt. I have cut down on the acres planted for more cover. I need what I plant to grow without losing a bunch of space to weeds.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yes, specific weeds like that can really be problematic. I think it is best to first worry about dealing with the weed and then worry about the specific crops you want. I just had a similar issue with Marestail (naturally resistant to gly) invading soybeans. I completely stopped planting RR soybeans as my warm season annual. I focused on herbicides and management techniques that would deal with Marestail. I'm now using a combination of Buckwheat and Sunn Hemp to cover my summer stress period. Because they are so fast to germinate they can help by smothers weeds and they still provide good food to deer. Maybe not quite the same as beans, but much better than Marestail with a few beans. I've not had issues with any specific problematic weed in my clover so far.
Yes, I worked through that logic as part of my journey. Keep in mind, I'm trying to do QDM, not just planting small fields for attraction. Food plots are a small fraction of a deer's diet. They are browsers by nature, not grazers like cattle. The only part of my planted crops that contribute to my goals are the part that end up in the stomach of a deer. With QDM, I plant for stress periods. The idea is to even out the low spots in nature by providing supplemental food at that time. At a time of plenty, it doesn't matter if my deer is eating my crop or quality native foods. They will eat to meet their needs (including security). My crops become important only during a stress period when nature is not providing quality foods. So, at the end of the stress period, if there is any of my planted crop left in the field, it has done its job. If not, then more of my crop might be needed. Any crop left in the field is not contributing to my QDM goal (but it may contribute to soil health and other secondary objectives).
Another thing to consider is social structure. A clean 2 1/2 acre monoculture field of clover may yield much more clover than 5 weedy 1/2 acre plots distributed across 1,000 acres, but those 5 small weedy plots will support more deer than the 2 1/2 acre plot because of the social structure. Doe family groups will anchor on these small plots.
So, does yield matter for attraction? Maybe a bit more but not much. As long as their is sufficient crop in the field (20% weeds are not an issue) deer are just as attracted to the food source. They may be even more attracted because the weeds may provide more vertical cover.
For QDM, yield is much less important than having a sufficient amount of quality food available a the right time distributed.
I'm actually now entering into the next phase where I'm moving from food plots to "wildlife openings". (A whole new discussion).
Thanks,
Jack
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
Well, I sprayed the field over a week ago and nothing died. For the life of me I couldn’t find the mixing rate on the instructions, so I found them online at 2-3 oz a gallon. I put 8oz per 3 gallons. The weeds were anywhere from a couple inches to about 2’ tall and nothing was touched. Any clues on what I did wrong?
VV
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VV
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FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
It's not my intention to be a wise-guy, only to make a point that sticks. See the recent IMOX post.
What you did wrong was to have high expectations. Managing weeds and using herbicides is tricky proposition (outside of glyphosate use and, even then it's getting more difficult).
What you did wrong was to have high expectations. Managing weeds and using herbicides is tricky proposition (outside of glyphosate use and, even then it's getting more difficult).
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
But is it normal to not kill anything?
VV
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VV
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Some herbicides takes a few weeks before you see results.
Victor Van Meter
5 year old buck +
Thanks. I have only dealt with gly, so I was expecting to see those type of results.
VV
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FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
Yes. There are an amazing number of things that need to go right for a herbicide to do it's thing, and even then what you might perceive to be the expected outcome is totally different than what the scientists envision. In my opinion 2,4db is a crappy herbicide with more challenges than benefits. It's been around a long time, replaced by multiple generations of herbicides with better results. Remember, these herbicides are intended for production agriculture and all that needs to happen is for the value of the outcome be greater than the cost of the input. After that, the race is on among companies to see who can make the most money under those conditions. So, it's not a killing sport, it's a money making sport.
I quickly reread your post. Maybe your problem is best solved by another method. Pig weed is a nasty annual producing tens of thousands of seeds. Mow it before it goes to seed. Keep your clover healthy and competitive. There's a lot more to consider. Read up.
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
If you do have a particular problematic weed in clover, another way to go with taller weeds is a weed wiping bar. I have one that I modified to fit on my loader bracket. I don't use it often, but it is great for low growing clover with a hard to kill weed. You can apply much higher concentrations of a herbicide with it as the herbicide is not being sprayed on the clover itself. Just a thought for specific problematic weeds.
Thanks,
Jack
Thanks,
Jack
