Roller Crimper

[S.T.Fanatic]

Yep.....I have never been able to succeed at broadcast seeds of any kind either. The drill seems to be the ticket for me.......tho I may try broadcasting again. Wonder if the protection of some thatch may help? ......provided the seed reaches the ground. Mowing or at least a cutipacker has worked to a degree for me......but rainfall was always needed to follow. Now with the mulch it would appear I can hold a little moisture and may pull it off (?).

Rainfall is key and having good soil biology is a big one as well. Without the "critters" you will end up having a lot of thatch build up and have a hard time getting the seed down to the soil where it needs to be in order to make a good stand. I am still working out the kinks myself. I broadcast at twice the rate and then crimp right after. Like anything timing is key. The plants need to be at a certain maturity to crimp and you need to be able to get a rain on the seed soon thereafter.

 

[MN Slick]

Hi all, new here and just doing tons of research before I dive into my first property I am in the process of buying.

Was this recent termination you're crimping AFTER your drill? Has anyone done the crimp and drill in one pass?

I’m crimping and drilling in one pass. Like anything it takes a bit of time to get it coordinated but it is not hard. Stress on the loader, which I hadn’t thought of, is more of a concern now. I may start doing 2 passes and move the crimped to the 3 point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[omicron1792]

I’m crimping and drilling in one pass. Like anything it takes a bit of time to get it coordinated but it is not hard. Stress on the loader, which I hadn’t thought of, is more of a concern now. I may start doing 2 passes and move the crimped to the 3 point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you had damage to your loader, or just a theoretical risk?

 

[MN Slick]

Have you had damage to your loader, or just a theoretical risk?

Theoretical

 

[Foggy47]

Theoretical

I think that "theoretical" risk is really quite real. At first your loader bushings and frame will just feel a bit more sloppy.....until you spring that loader. Side loads are a no-no IMO.....especially if they can be avoided. Repairing or replacing a loader is a big thing. Not sure of Mn Slick's experience in operating.....but I did not think that was very real.....especially in light of the way my plots are configured. If you have square fields....that could be a whole nother thing. If you need to turn to any extent both the drill and the roller/crimper are fighting you. Not a good practice.

Having said all the above.....in my situation......it's not real to plant and crimp at the same time. The rye is not ready to crimp when I am planting my new summer release. So why unnessesarilly put strain on the loader and make the operation so much more difficult?? The tractor three point handles it so much better. 2 cents.

 

[Foggy47]

Some guys are looking for other means to terminate. I thought I had a fair situation to show here.....and perhaps some ideas can be gleaned from this experience. I realize everyone may not want a roller crimper......this may provide other results? EDIT: SD....are you listening?? Grin.

I had a few things to do at my land today....including puting out my game cameras. I put one of my cameras in a plot of a mixed situation.....and thought some may be interested in other ways to terminate rye. Because this plot had a area that had drowned out it was difficult to get here to do much work until recently. I had planted part of it with the GC Summer release a few weeks ago, and nearly got stuck a few times. Rather than risk that and being I had some grassy weeds in some areas.....I decided to terminate the rye with 14 oz / acre Clethodium and a non-ionic surfactant. It Seemed to do a pretty good job too.....but it is slow to react....so another few weeks of watching is in order. Today when I put the camera in this area I figured it was dry enough to either roll the rye down or mow it with my flail mower. Being the mower was already on the tractor....I decided to flail mow at about 6" high. I did leave one section in the middle (between I/2 acre clover patch and the rye/clover/ GC Summer Release. Seems like the plot is growing nicely....but I thought this may be a good way to determine the results of terminating with cleth and then chopping with a flail mower vs just letting the terminated rye stand. Here is some pics from today. I will report more as the situation progresses. At this point I have mowed all that will be mowed. The rye in the middle will stand.

Kinda sticking my neck out here.....as this area was the worst area I had in the past for pigweed. Good test to see if the flail mowed rye mulch is up to the task of smothering that pigweed out. With 1.75" of rain two days ago....this plot oughta really pop in the next days.

 

[Foggy47]

Was just considering the effects of roller crimping over the various types of clovers (red vs white and crimson, Balnaasa, etc) and vetches and different small grains.......and came across this article that summizes some of these concerns. A good read if your learning about roller crimpers and termination and timing of such things. I feel I am getting closer to being successful with my "rotation" but another year may give other results. Fun. More discussion on types of plants that will survive or terminate is likely good for us.

I was considering moving away from white clovers to keep my cost down......and plant more crimson and Balansa, and Berseem......but that may not be such a good idea unless I plant them just prior to crimping in the spring. Some of those have a hollow stem - which are the very plants that crimping kills most easily.

Killer Tips for Rolling Your Covers

“When conditions are right, rolling cover crops and not using herbicides can work about one out of five times,” says Holtwood, Pa., no-tiller Steve Groff, who’s been rolling and crimping covers since 1995. “One out of five times it’ll be a disaster, and three out of five it’ll be in the middle...

www.covercropstrategies.com

 

[SD51555]

Was just considering the effects of roller crimping over the various types of clovers (red vs white and crimson, Balnaasa, etc) and vetches and different small grains.......and came across this article that summizes some of these concerns. A good read if your learning about roller crimpers and termination and timing of such things. I feel I am getting closer to being successful with my "rotation" but another year may give other results. Fun. More discussion on types of plants that will survive or terminate is likely good for us.

I was considering moving away from white clovers to keep my cost down......and plant more crimson and Balansa, and Berseem......but that may not be such a good idea unless I plant them just prior to crimping in the spring. Some of those have a hollow stem - which are the very plants that crimping kills most easily.

Killer Tips for Rolling Your Covers

“When conditions are right, rolling cover crops and not using herbicides can work about one out of five times,” says Holtwood, Pa., no-tiller Steve Groff, who’s been rolling and crimping covers since 1995. “One out of five times it’ll be a disaster, and three out of five it’ll be in the middle...

www.covercropstrategies.com

What did you end up ordering for seed this year? Did you still get summer release?

 

[Foggy47]

What did you end up ordering for seed this year? Did you still get summer release?

Nope......No summer release. Too short of a growing season for me. Instead I'm going to spray gly to terminate some rye and clover strips in my plots....then drill some Egyptian Wheat, Milo, and sorghum Sudan as a vertical cover / screen. Alongside this I will drill my fall brassica mix again...into the standing but terminated rye. After planting I will roll it down when I roller crimp the rest of my clover plots to get the mulch benefits.

Then in fall I will broadcast WR and Clover(s) into the two strip plots said above and drill the same WR and Clovers into the balance for the fall and the next year.

I'm hoping to gain good fawning cover and a decent food source in spring and early summer by leaving everything through June (if all goes as planned). I think the dense rye also provides security for doe groups to bed closer together. (If I have any deer left after all the snow this winter).

 

[SD51555]

Nope......No summer release. Too short of a growing season for me. Instead I'm going to spray gly to terminate some rye and clover strips in my plots....then drill some Egyptian Wheat, Milo, and sorghum Sudan as a vertical cover / screen. Alongside this I will drill my fall brassica mix again...into the standing but terminated rye. After planting I will roll it down when I roller crimp the rest of my clover plots to get the mulch benefits.

Then in fall I will broadcast WR and Clover(s) into the two strip plots said above and drill the same WR and Clovers into the balance for the fall and the next year.

I'm hoping to gain good fawning cover and a decent food source in spring and early summer by leaving everything through June (if all goes as planned). I think the dense rye also provides security for doe groups to bed closer together. (If I have any deer left after all the snow this winter).

I like it.

 

[Foggy47]

I like it.

Wow! The SD stamp of approval! Make one proud. I did leave out some details......as they serve to just be cream on the cake. But basically that is my plan. Now....if the weather co-operates.

Also....in May....I plan to spread 23 tons of line on top of my plots.....and hope the rains wash it into my plots. I dont want to disk it in....just let Mother Nature do its thing.

 

[Wild Thing]

Was just considering the effects of roller crimping over the various types of clovers (red vs white and crimson, Balnaasa, etc) and vetches and different small grains.......and came across this article that summizes some of these concerns. A good read if your learning about roller crimpers and termination and timing of such things. I feel I am getting closer to being successful with my "rotation" but another year may give other results. Fun. More discussion on types of plants that will survive or terminate is likely good for us.

I was considering moving away from white clovers to keep my cost down......and plant more crimson and Balansa, and Berseem......but that may not be such a good idea unless I plant them just prior to crimping in the spring. Some of those have a hollow stem - which are the very plants that crimping kills most easily.

Killer Tips for Rolling Your Covers

“When conditions are right, rolling cover crops and not using herbicides can work about one out of five times,” says Holtwood, Pa., no-tiller Steve Groff, who’s been rolling and crimping covers since 1995. “One out of five times it’ll be a disaster, and three out of five it’ll be in the middle...

www.covercropstrategies.com

Great article Foggy. Thanks for posting. I don't have a roller/crimper and have been effectively using a combination of rolling with my cultipacker and spraying. Based upon the info in this article I may just continue doing that rather than investing in a roller/crimper.

I also used a “home mixed” blend of a Summer Release early cover crop followed by another “home mixed” fall release planting last year. I have to say it was a little disappointing. Like others in the North have found, our growing season in Upper Michigan is just too short for this type of double planting. I do have some leftover “Summer Release” seed from last year which I will drill into my “Fall Release” cover crop I planted last year but I wont try the double cropping again. I have had good success by fall planting my cover crops and allowing them to mature (it produces lots of spring forage and great June fawning cover), and then terminating them in early to mid-July when I drill my brassicas into the cover crop. By adding some clovers to the brassica mix and then broadcasting rye over the brassicas in mid-late August, I keep my soil covered and have another cover crop growing into the next spring and summer. This has been working well for me so I guess if it ain't broke….don't fix it.

 

[omicron1792]

Great article Foggy. Thanks for posting. I don't have a roller/crimper and have been effectively using a combination of rolling with my cultipacker and spraying. Based upon the info in this article I may just continue doing that rather than investing in a roller/crimper.

I also used a “home mixed” blend of a Summer Release early cover crop followed by another “home mixed” fall release planting last year. I have to say it was a little disappointing. Like others in the North have found, our growing season in Upper Michigan is just too short for this type of double planting. I do have some leftover “Summer Release” seed from last year which I will drill into my “Fall Release” cover crop I planted last year but I wont try the double cropping again. I have had good success by fall planting my cover crops and allowing them to mature (it produces lots of spring forage and great June fawning cover), and then terminating them in early to mid-July when I drill my brassicas into the cover crop. By adding some clovers to the brassica mix and then broadcasting rye over the brassicas in mid-late August, I keep my soil covered and have another cover crop growing into the next spring and summer. This has been working well for me so I guess if it ain't broke….don't fix it.

Everything I see here I think you are right Gypsy. In a way I’m jealous you only have to do one planting cycle.

 

[Fair oak]

I’m doing roughly the same thing as wild thing mentions above on my 4 acres of plots with good results. I’m using a homemade roller that I have about 200 bucks into and spraying once. So for the guys with just atvs, utvs, etc, it can be done with minimal equipment with great results!

 

[Foggy47]

^ While I am glad I own a Roller Crimper......I do not think one is a necessity.....for most of us. I plan to continue to use my Roller Crimper where I can.....but I do need to also use some Glyphosate to kill some of my clover and thus the rye prior to drilling my fall brassica mis and the screen mix. Then I will roll down the rye using the roller crimper. As my rye will be dead anyway.....I dont think it will take much to roll it down when it's dead and standing there.....thus a cultipacker would suffice. That said.....the roller crimper does a good job of making an even mulch/mat of rye.

I suppose if I were to transition to annual clovers.....then I could get away without a chemical kill and just terminate the rye via a roller crimper. But having that clover across my land in the spring supplies allot of needed green food in May and June when it is really needed. And, as talked about in another thread, my brassica's dont compete well unless I terminate the thick clover I have. I am not around to frost seed in spring (Arizona until Mid-May) thus fall planted clover and rye are a requirement for me.

 

[SD51555]

^ While I am glad I own a Roller Crimper......I do not think one is a necessity.....for most of us. I plan to continue to use my Roller Crimper where I can.....but I do need to also use some Glyphosate to kill some of my clover and thus the rye prior to drilling my fall brassica mis and the screen mix. Then I will roll down the rye using the roller crimper. As my rye will be dead anyway.....I dont think it will take much to roll it down when it's dead and standing there.....thus a cultipacker would suffice. That said.....the roller crimper does a good job of making an even mulch/mat of rye.

I suppose if I were to transition to annual clovers.....then I could get away without a chemical kill and just terminate the rye via a roller crimper. But having that clover across my land in the spring supplies allot of needed green food in May and June when it is really needed. And, as talked about in another thread, my brassica's dont compete well unless I terminate the thick clover I have. I am not around to frost seed in spring (Arizona until Mid-May) thus fall planted clover and rye are a requirement for me.

I put 1 pound of white clover on my half acre south plot, and one year later, it has completely closed up my soil surface. I bet a guy could crank that down to 1 pound per acre and still get a full stand after a rye crop. I wish I'd not put any more white clover out. I wish I could have tried to go the distance with fixation instead.

 

[Foggy47]

I put 1 pound of white clover on my half acre south plot, and one year later, it has completely closed up my soil surface. I bet a guy could crank that down to 1 pound per acre and still get a full stand after a rye crop. I wish I'd not put any more white clover out. I wish I could have tried to go the distance with fixation instead.

I'd love to plant Fixation or Frosty Berseem or Crimson clover in fall. My problem with those clovers is that I question that it will over-winter for me. I gotta drill or broadcast some clover in the fall to have some for Spring and early Summer when I need some food. Some of the newer clovers and crimson clover won't make it thru the winters here - zone 3. (Or do you have a different experience to share??).

 

[SD51555]

I'd love to plant Fixation or Frosty Berseem or Crimson clover in fall. My problem with those clovers is that I question that it will over-winter for me. I gotta drill or broadcast some clover in the fall to have some for Spring and early Summer when I need some food. Some of the newer clovers and crimson clover won't make it thru the winters here - zone 3. (Or do you have a different experience to share??).

No. I have no idea how to grow fixation. I have always planted it with my rye in August. I always get some to come back the following year, but never a solid stand. Maybe 5% at best. I don't know if it dies, or if the white clover just chokes it out. I can't wait for warm soil in June to plant it either, because everything is grown shut by then.

 

[Foggy47]

No. I have no idea how to grow fixation. I have always planted it with my rye in August. I always get some to come back the following year, but never a solid stand. Maybe 5% at best. I don't know if it dies, or if the white clover just chokes it out. I can't wait for warm soil in June to plant it either, because everything is grown shut by then.

Yep....what I thought. I started a new thread on this.....trying to find another legume candidate to over-winter in zone 3 that can provide tor the next "cash crop". Red and white clovers appear to be the only fall seeded legumes I can count on.

 

[Wild Thing]

I'd love to plant Fixation or Frosty Berseem or Crimson clover in fall. My problem with those clovers is that I question that it will over-winter for me. I gotta drill or broadcast some clover in the fall to have some for Spring and early Summer when I need some food. Some of the newer clovers and crimson clover won't make it thru the winters here - zone 3. (Or do you have a different experience to share??).

I had always heard that Crimson would not survive winter in the north also. Finally I decided to try some and find out for myself. I found that it overwinters just fine in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (Zone 4), and so does Hairy Vetch. I just planted some Balsana Fixation for the first time last fall So hopefully we will find out the true story on it also if it ever quits snowing up here.