Sand or water or water with antifreeze for your roller??

[Foggy47]

Hey foggy n brokenbear I'm curious do you really have to have a roller crimper for rye n buckwheat or would cultipacker be sufficient. Please give me your thoughts I planted rye at 200 pounds per acre this fall and would be planting 50 pounds buckwheat per acre next July ty

I did not use my roller crimper this year. Never put it on my tractor. Instead I terminated some rye and clover with herbicides to (attempt) planting my brassica plots in mid July (which was a failure due to lack of rain)......and I used my flail mower to terminate some other rye. I let some go to seed and then re-planted into the standing rye.....which largely knocked it down. I just did not have a need to use that roller crimper this year.

I had such a dry year that I had to bob and weave to keep my plots going the best I could.....as I tried my best to grow some brasica (and largely lost that battle). Also, as far north as I am.....the rye does not go to seed until late July or August......so I get time for some other alternatives.

I did try to use a cultipacker to terminate rye last summer. I would say it's the worst method to terminate rye that I have tried. My rye just stood back up after a day or three. I suppose if you cultipacked it three times or so.....you could keep it from succeeding (?)......but a single pass across the rye would not do it.

My experience with buckwheat is that you can terminate it just by looking at it......or by drilling into it and likely by use of your cultipacker. (grin). Rye is a bit harder tho.

If I did not own a roller crimper......I think I could get along without such a tool. But, I beleive a flail mower and herbicides are superior to using a cultipacker to terminate rye if you do not have a crimper. For a small operator on a few acres....I think you can get along without a roller crimper. It's a bit of a one-trick pony. Still...in the right time and place they do some good things. Your needs & results may vary?

 

[Foggy47]

^ Thinking more on your particular question......planting rye in fall.....then wanting to terminate it and go to buckwheat. It would seem to me that you are really wanting to build your soil for a year or more. Not sure that terminating all your rye will prove to be of high value to you.....as compared to letting it go to seed anyway. Why not plant green into the standing rye....then try your cultipacker after you have drilled your buckwheat. You likely will terminate most of the rye and any volunteer seed will only be to your benefit next year anyway. No?

 

[Brokenbear]

First I want everyone to understand I am new to this method of no/low till 24/7 green so I too am still learning after a lifetime of mono row cropping

So in my quest of chasing this learning curve I am following the dictates the pioneers like Dr Grant Woods and others on here as to methods and equipment of "Go Green" for this reason:

All my bottom ground food plot acreage on a seemingly annual or semiannual basis are heavy current flooded by a creek going through my property ..the results have been so severe that dirt pans have been used this year to re level the ground ..we are in a flood/drought cycle so green is here to stay on my land ..

I do not differ with what Foggy has said except in my case I "NEED" the plant matter to stay in place.. to be anchored in place ..so a roll crimper for me to win the erosion battle appears to be a winner so far ..

I am also working on getting to low/no chemical use so in that light ... I had a very interesting roll crimp event i will share ..

Near some woods I intend to dormant plant in December a pretty good size "pollinator" plot.. and to start the process I needed to tackle the 8' tall weed patch to stop from going to seed as well as killing off new exposed "stuff"

So having just received my handy dandy new crimper I says to me why not.. so I ran the roller crimper thru that patch and I am amazed at the kill off ..it did not kill what few little tree sprouts nor what few short weeds but by and large it absolutely killed the daylights out of the rank and file semi matured weeds ..

No you do not have to have the roll crimper but I think the roll crimper leaves a much better, longer lasting, anchored plant matter "mat" than chemical killed plants ..no science here in this statement but chem killed plant matter seems to literally dry up and blow away so to speak

My mission is to look at where bare ground once thrived and I see only green and growing or brown and thatched ready to grow !

Bear

 

[omicron1792]

I think both work, but the crimper works better. It breaks but doesn’t cut stalk, killing the plant. Cutting May terminate, but not always (think of mowing your lawn). Rolling May lay it down but not kill it for it to stand back up.

I had great success last spring rolling my grain crops with my Goliath crimper.

 

[Foggy47]

I also had good success at crimping rye much like the pics Omi posted above. However.....in my case......under that rye I had a lush stand of clover to deal with. I wanted to terminate the clover and the rye......and to do so without tillage.....in order to get brassica to grow. Thus the herbicides rather than tillage.....or crimping. You can crimp clover all you want....but crimping will just encourage more growth IMO. Crimping requires tall stalks or stems like most grasses have. Also hollow stems are easier to terminate with a crimp.

I really like the even mat of duff created by crimping. It's just that crimping cannot terminate all the various crops we encounter.

I am thinking now....that I may use my tiller to make strips in my clover plots next year. And likely will do that like early August or so. Ideas and plans evolve as experiences teach us.

 

[omicron1792]

I also had good success at crimping rye much like the pics Omi posted above. However.....in my case......under that rye I had a lush stand of clover to deal with. I wanted to terminate the clover and the rye......and to do so without tillage.....in order to get brassica to grow. Thus the herbicides rather than tillage.....or crimping. You can crimp clover all you want....but crimping will just encourage more growth IMO. Crimping requires tall stalks or stems like most grasses have. Also hollow stems are easier to terminate with a crimp.

I really like the even mat of duff created by crimping. It's just that crimping cannot terminate all the various crops we encounter.

I am thinking now....that I may use my tiller to make strips in my clover plots next year. And likely will do that like early August or so. Ideas and plans evolve as experiences teach us.

I can see that being an issue Foggy up north. Here the clover will be all but dead by June/July so not a big issue. I want it to live till it seeds, the only way to get a “perennial” clover down here.

 

[matinc]

So I pose this question brokenhearted. If I am reading correctly you actually crimper wild growing weeds and shrubs? I have been wondering would a roller crimper terminate wild grasses with clover growing underneath it without killing the existing clover. As I have areas that the weeds get 3 feet high and you need a 3 point brush on a tractor to mow it down and it's not a smooth area with ruts in it. I am not even sure just roller crimping knocking down the stalks would make for a better smorgasbord of young plants. The area is wet with clay. Just curious. Ty

 

[matinc]

Sorry broken bear. Damm spellcheck

 

[Foggy47]

A roller / crimper is best at tall crops with a hollow stem. It terminates plants by crushing parts of the stem which basically cut off the moisture to the seed heads and prevent further growth. It may set back crops like clover and flatten the clover for a few days but it wont terminate most clovers. I am hoping it will terminate sweet clover which is a tall stemmy crop in it's second year.

I have roller crimped some grasses including Johnson grass.....that was growing in my trails and yard areas. It was quite effective in doing so. Roller crimping is super effective on winter rye, wheat, oats, and other tall grasses. I'm not sure how it would do on sorghum Sudan grass and others of that ilk. Likely quite good with enough weight to crush the stalks.

There are some good YouTube videos on roller crimping......and I'm going there right now to see if I can find one on Sorghum Sudan Grass.

 

[Brokenbear]

So I pose this question brokenhearted. If I am reading correctly you actually crimper wild growing weeds and shrubs? I have been wondering would a roller crimper terminate wild grasses with clover growing underneath it without killing the existing clover. As I have areas that the weeds get 3 feet high and you need a 3 point brush on a tractor to mow it down and it's not a smooth area with ruts in it. I am not even sure just roller crimping knocking down the stalks would make for a better smorgasbord of young plants. The area is wet with clay. Just curious. Ty

Yes sir that is what I did except mine were tall as in 7’ +\- and it smacked them .. laid them down good and about 5 days after I went by and was having great brown up of the crimped field ., I will be going there mid week and will try to remember to take a photo
Common sense tells us uneven or any other variation of the ground surface will affect the crimpers ability to crimp if it is pressing the stalk against air like a pocket a big rock came out of or I would also think soft ground would allow the stalk to possibly escape crimping and as for wet/muddy ground I would expect the crimper to ball up into a nightmare of gigantic proportions..
I have never done wet or seriously uneven ground and have been pleased with mine but different soil types and conditions no doubt will play a roll in crimper success..

Bear

 

[matinc]

Would luv to see the pictures of the 7 foot plants area crimped and how it looks now. In my case there is no rocks n the uneven ground is more tire track groves. Any videos show up on Sudan grass foggie.

 

[Foggy47]

Would luv to see the pictures of the 7 foot plants area crimped and how it looks now. In my case there is no rocks n the uneven ground is more tire track groves. Any videos show up on Sudan grass foggie.

Yep.....I did see a few video's on crimping Sorghum Sudan grass. I saw several interesting video's on SSG and Sunn Hemp combo....and some with Beans and some varieties of Millet too. All were terminated with the roller crimper. Sunn Hemp is a legume.....and can provide lots of nitrogen. I saw some very good Sorghum Sudan grass earlier this week.....where a guy had planted it for cover and deer food. That stuff was wicked beautiful tall, thick cover. I'm not sure how well I could do drilling into that stuff unless it was ground up with my flail mower. It's really an incredible amount of bio mass.

I'm going to plant some next summer.....and add some millet and Sunn Hemp too.

 

[matinc]

Wow that's awesome foggy. Would luv to see the pictures. What kind of crimper do you have. I am still deciding what to buy.

 

[Brokenbear]

Foggy you forget you aren't pulling a Tar River anymore ..what you have will plant it but if you failed to knock enough down during planting to get it light you might have to roll crimp it to get it light once it has jumped up
This is the only situation where I would roll BEFORE drilling so the drill has cleared a light path for the planted seed ..otherwise on "normal debris/thatch i lean towards laying the thin thatch mat over the seed bed via drilling then crimping ..remember your soils, moisture and weed control issues may differ from mine ! ..
FYI ..the only (young small seedling) plant I have for sure recorded that will damage when run over by a tire is corn once it is at 3 leaves and 8" ..most of the stuff we deal with as plotters is pretty resilient
If you fellows have other small plants sensitive to one time tire track pressure please add it to my list ..we all learn every day something ..there are some it will knock back some but most will reasonably recover

Bear

 

[Foggy47]

Wow that's awesome foggy. Would luv to see the pictures. What kind of crimper do you have. I am still deciding what to buy.

google is your friend. I did see a few video's but cannot say there are any outstanding video on doing this. looks like it works quite well tho.....and is commonly done.

I have a 6 foot wide Goliath Crimper. I & J Roller Crimpers are all built to the Rodale Institute specs (as are most others) and are kinda the gold standard for roller crimpers. Many sizes available.

 

[matinc]

Foggy had to look at Sudan grass. That is a massive amount of bio mass. Just watched a sun flower crimp video and the amount of bio mass. Got me to wondering do you think with a crimper n the release program they could actually grow things in the desert.

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy you forget you aren't pulling a Tar River anymore ..what you have will plant it but if you failed to knock enough down during planting to get it light you might have to roll crimp it to get it light once it has jumped up
This is the only situation where I would roll BEFORE drilling so the drill has cleared a light path for the planted seed ..otherwise on "normal debris/thatch i lean towards laying the thin thatch mat over the seed bed via drilling then crimping ..remember your soils, moisture and weed control issues may differ from mine ! ..
FYI ..the only (young small seedling) plant I have for sure recorded that will damage when run over by a tire is corn once it is at 3 leaves and 8" ..most of the stuff we deal with as plotters is pretty resilient
If you fellows have other small plants sensitive to one time tire track pressure please add it to my list ..we all learn every day something ..there are some it will knock back some but most will reasonably recover

Bear

I didnt forget anything. Getting any drill to penetrate through mature Sorghum Sudan Grass would be tough. A good stand of that stuff can provide a mat that could be 3" thick and tough and dense. Might be better to use a broadcaster lifted high on my tractors loader and drop the seed into the standing crop ahead of the roller crimper on the back. Then consider disking over the top or flail mowing if needed. That chit is thick and dense.

 

[Brokenbear]

I did not have time nor vehicle to go to the actual field I did the high weeds but I did drop the "Titan Attachments" 8' roll crimper on my way to the field in discussion ..the close up picture shows where I dropped the crimper where it went thu CRP ground
The second distant picture if you enlarge it the left hand side just in front of the woods was roll crimped and the bushy stuff to the right is CRP which is a couple of feet shorter than what I roll crimped and not as big of plants ..will try to get one soon of the big field

 

[Foggy47]

I have a Titan attachment 3 Point plate conversion that QA attaches to my loader.....similar to that shown in the I&J Roller Crimper picture below. I installed the plate and my 6' Goliath Roller Crimper on the loader of my tractor. I spun the roller around 180 degrees so it would operate the right direction. Tried it on my land. Not a good plan FOR MY LAND as I got too many twists and turns and that applies ALLOT of constant side pressure to the loader joints.

After a shot time.....I decided I would never be able to run my roller crimper and my grain drill at the same time anyway as I have too much to watch and control with all the twists and turns and odd areas in my land. If a guy has all large prolts that are laid out like ag-fileds maybe this could be practiacl. Even tho.....I still think it would be hard on your loader over time. I turned my roller around and put it on the three point to operate.....and I think I will always do it that way as its so much easier to operate and eliminates the potential for "springing" your loader. Larger tractors have a dedicated 3 point that is made for this sort of thing. Our small tractors and loaders are not.....IMHO.

^^^ From the pic posted by OMI.....it appears that he is running his on the front loader. Maybe he can add his opinion on this issue??

 

[Brokenbear]

Spot on.. loader mounted .. it is just a matter of time for a bad outcome