Red Cedar Carnage

[Oleo]

I have a skid steer and forestry mulcher reserved for next week to completely remove 9 acres of red cedars on my property. Once they're gone, they're gone, so I'm hoping you can give me any thoughts before I do something I regret.

For context, I've attached a satellite picture from 1990 and one recent showing how much the cedars have invaded the property. The areas I'll be attacking (outlined in red) have trunks 2-8" in diameter, with trees 15-25 foot tall. They're pretty narrow trees, because the trunks are super close together. Other areas of cedars have more mature trees - like 12"+ trunks that look like a lot more work to remove.

Some specific questions:

I'm planning to use that skid steer and forestry mulcher because it seems like it'll be the fastest, easiest, and leave the least mess behind. It is somewhat expensive at $5k/week to rent it. Would you suggest another option? Is there an implement I could buy for my compact tractor that would be efficient and give me something worth keeping? Bulldozer? I've looked briefly at those saws that connect to a 3-point hitch, but I'm a little nervous about the amount of dead trees I'd have to deal with. That'd be some huge burn piles, and I'm not an expert burner. Any other implements I should consider rather than renting the mulcher?

I'm planning to leave a row of more mature cedars at the edge of the open field as screening. The cedars by the field are more mature and would make good screening and would be more challenging to remove. Any reason to leave any other cedars here and there?

Any reason to bail on this project and leave the cedars? They're too dense to walk through. The ground is baron underneath. They seem pretty useless to me.

Thanks

 

[Catscratch]

What part of the country are ya in? They're invasive where I'm at. I see benefits in cedars but also find grass and woody shrubs to be better. Early successional habitat beats cedars in my opinion.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

How do the deer use your cedar thickets compared to the other areas on your property? In SE MN the cedars are often found on south facing hillsides and they provide great winter cover. It sounds like your cedar thicket is fully canopied with no ground cover, so that might not be as attractive to wildlife at that stage.

A forestry mulcher would probably work pretty well for that job.

 

[T-Max]

Can you burn? If you can, you could save a lot of money just dropping them with a chainsaw and burning the carcass next year.

 

[jsasker007]

I think I would try to leave a strip of them after clearing/thinning. Any strategic benefit for a long distance screen or maybe a bedding sanctuary for the deer?

 

[Oleo]

I’m in Eastern Kansas. They’ve full taken over, and there’s nothing on the ground. Best I can tell, the deer just walk through them, and only in certain areas. Most are so thick even they can’t get through.

I think I could burn, but it’s easily thousands of trees, and I’d think it’d be a hell of a burn. I’ll snap a picture from the inside if I get a chance.

 

[jsasker007]

Sounds like dozer work.

 

[letemgrow]

Some sparse cedars are okay.

I've seen MANY deer beds under cedars during ice/heavy snow storms in northern MO.

But when there is nothing growing under them...they're too thick without question. Some quality habitat is sparse cedars mixed with forbs and shrubs for a bounty of wildlife.

 

[Oleo]

It’s hard to capture how thick they are. I haven’t set foot in most of this area because I can’t get through it. The first quote I got for clearing it was around $1000/acre, so I figured this muncher was cheaper than a dozer. Or, is there a cheaper approach with a dozer?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

The problem with a dozer is you are left with piles that you now have to deal with. The mulcher will eat them up. I always have grand plans of burning piles and I never can get to it or the conditions aren’t right, etc. Dozer may be cheaper but you have work to do when he leaves

 

[bwoods11]

I have so many cedars in Iowa, it’s ridiculous! I’m cutting some every year .

If it were me…, I’d leave 2-5 acres and then cut the lower branches so deer can walk in and out of them ?

It’s hard to say without seeing it .

 

[bwoods11]

There’s a guy in Iowa that I know and he’s a really good hunter (wall full of Booners)! He took 9-10 acres of cedars and cut out trails within them, took some out completely and cut branches on some .

He said the deer are in there big time. He hired it done—$4000 cost .

Another thing he did was strategically create a meeting point in the cedars with a blind /stand set factoring in wind.

 

[jsasker007]

If the ground freezes where you are the best time for a dozer to minimize ground damage would be after it freezes. Still have debris to deal with to a certain extent.

 

[hillrunner]

You will still have a massive mess when you are done . The mulcher doesn't just make all that material disappear when they are that thick. I have areas that I mulched 6 years ago that still have almost nothing growing through.
I'd dig a big hole with a hoe and start a tree fire inside. You can just keep adding them to the top as it burns.
I wouldn't clear cut the whole 9 acres either. Leave a bunch of male (no berries) cedar trees strategically for travel routes and bedding.

 

[Mortenson]

Your aerial pics really made a change. I have a small piece of pasture we let go several years back. Cedars and locust grow up primarily, with hedge, mulberry and A.O. mixed in. Everything invasive and bad I suppose, but the deer love it and travel across the road to be there. It's a mini sanctuary. I keep some of it mowed, just not to lose it all. I don't have any barren ground underneath those trees yet. Assuming I will someday, hmm. Is this what yours looked like 20 years ago?

 

[West_Fork]

With a depleted understory it is always a good idea to get seed on the ground before so that it gets worked in while mulching. However, if the trees are too dense, the mulch layer can prevent plant establishment. If you do mastication, make sure to incorporate in to the soil, especially since it is a rental and you might as well get the most out of it. If you are replacing carbides, that might be a different story.

Burning has another advantage over mastication, besides being cheaper and more natural; it will deplete the seed bank. Red cedar from what I can tell are not true cedars and are junipers, and the seed banks do not tolerate fire well. Otherwise expect retreating it every 5 years to remove the saplings.

The next cheapest and effective is chaining, but 9 acres is not enough to justify mobilizing dozers.

Another option to go along with pile burning is a hydro-ax, cheaper to rent, less prone to failure, but you will need to burn it.

 

[West_Fork]

It’s hard to capture how thick they are. I haven’t set foot in most of this area because I can’t get through it. The first quote I got for clearing it was around $1000/acre, so I figured this muncher was cheaper than a dozer. Or, is there a cheaper approach with a dozer?

Lop and scatter, pile burn, and it will probably be longer lived treatment. Even better would be not to pile, cut and drop, follow with broadcast burning, this will reduce the seed bank and need for maintenance. Fire is likely to release some natives too. Leaving some large woody debris will help with plant establihsment by creating safe sites, erosion control, etc. Fire will usually leave some large woody as embedded litter.

 

[Oleo]

I like the idea of cutting and burning, especially after reading about the mess mentioned above and the recommendation for incorporating into the soil. However, both the cutting and the burning still seem challenging. Is there really an efficient way to cut thousands of trees? Also, the size of the fire for a fire novice is pretty intimidating. Still leaning towards the mulcher, but I'd certainly be focusing on a finer and deeper grind after reading this.

There’s a guy in Iowa that I know and he’s a really good hunter (wall full of Booners)! He took 9-10 acres of cedars and cut out trails within them, took some out completely and cut branches on some .

He said the deer are in there big time. He hired it done—$4000 cost .

Another thing he did was strategically create a meeting point in the cedars with a blind /stand set factoring in wind.

I like the idea of the travel corridors, but I'm hoping to turn this into some usable habitat over time opposed to just guiding traffic.

Your aerial pics really made a change. I have a small piece of pasture we let go several years back. Cedars and locust grow up primarily, with hedge, mulberry and A.O. mixed in. Everything invasive and bad I suppose, but the deer love it and travel across the road to be there. It's a mini sanctuary. I keep some of it mowed, just not to lose it all. I don't have any barren ground underneath those trees yet. Assuming I will someday, hmm. Is this what yours looked like 20 years ago?

I didn't own this property for that first photo. I just looked back on google earth. It does make me more aware of how fast they can spread. Seems like now would be a good time to keep figure out the long term plan and prevent them from going crazy.

 

[Bill]

Your aerial pics really made a change. I have a small piece of pasture we let go several years back. Cedars and locust grow up primarily, with hedge, mulberry and A.O. mixed in. Everything invasive and bad I suppose, but the deer love it and travel across the road to be there. It's a mini sanctuary. I keep some of it mowed, just not to lose it all. I don't have any barren ground underneath those trees yet. Assuming I will someday, hmm. Is this what yours looked like 20 years ago?

View attachment 72410

I've got a field like that. Every year I say I'm going to thin them out a bit so they aren't close enough to self prune. I really need to do that soon.

Oleo's look like they may be a deer desert.

 

[West_Fork]

I like the idea of cutting and burning, especially after reading about the mess mentioned above and the recommendation for incorporating into the soil. However, both the cutting and the burning still seem challenging. Is there really an efficient way to cut thousands of trees? Also, the size of the fire for a fire novice is pretty intimidating. Still leaning towards the mulcher, but I'd certainly be focusing on a finer and deeper grind after reading this.


I like the idea of the travel corridors, but I'm hoping to turn this into some usable habitat over time opposed to just guiding traffic.



I didn't own this property for that first photo. I just looked back on google earth. It does make me more aware of how fast they can spread. Seems like now would be a good time to keep figure out the long term plan and prevent them from going crazy.

Talk to your state fire folks, they might be willing to help. Another option could be to treat it around the perimeter if it is not isolated already, maybe blackline it when conditions are right, then light off the interior when the conditions are right. It will be a bit of red tape and paperwork, but sometimes its the only way to do it without being liable for the cost of a heavy airtanker.