Realistic expectations

[Wind Gypsy]

I always thought as long as you had a good amount of ag around, a buck with good genetics could reach 150+ if given age.
Where we are at in South central Wisconsin, ag is all over and thus we see bigger bucks. One thing that I can't quite wrap my head around is how northern Wisconsin used to crank out giants every year. Now you don't hear or see many giants being taken. I know wolves are an issue and their is less deer around but back in the mid 1900s, their wasn't many deer then either.

It's a very interesting question. Some deer SHOULD be able to squeek by harvest and get age with amount of cover up there. I think its a combination of issues building on each other. Wolves, bears, higher hunter efficacy, higher doe harvest reducing overall #s, maybe less prime wintering cover (I know that many white cedar winter yards in N. MN have been lost). All of those issues not only result in mortality but also stress which impacts the health of deer and thus their ability to put nutrients into antler growth.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

These are the bucks I get to 5.5 plus. High graded turd heads!

 

[bwoods11]

I get to see the genetics and age in 3 states… Minnesota, Iowa, & Missouri. It’s fun to just observe the difference.

Iowa clearly has the best age, but genetics can be good on all 3 ! I usually have a few 150+ inchers to go after in Iowa. Didn’t see a 150 in Minnesota last year, but had a giant hanging around—just never saw him while hunting .



Missouri has great genetics, but age can be an issue. Lots of bucks there though!

I expect a 150+ in each state, probably 2-3 in Iowa. Can’t wait — I’m excited about the antler growth this year … mild winter and good rain !

Note.. pic is from a buck in Minnesota. Just last week.

 

[Tree Spud]

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These are the bucks I get to 5.5 plus. High graded turd heads!

That would be disappointing. Do you have lots of hunting pressure around your property?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

That would be disappointing. Do you have lots of hunting pressure around your property?

lol yeah. There’s not a property south of the Ohio River without people hunting it

 

[SwampCat]

9 bucks at 5.5 yo is amazing. I usually have 1 or maybe 2 5.5 yo on the property. Typically at least one of those will call our property home for several years due to bedding, great sanctuary, food & water. They will start to wander as the rut approaches. If i had 9-10 5.5 yo olds on the property, I would be probably be on YouTube as one of the talking head experts LOL!!!

I agree with you that age & rack size do not correlate. Hitting 150 and above requires the genetics, soil nutrients, food sources, good sanctuary with minimal disruption. Many bucks don't have the genetics to get 150 or bigger. When you have 9 pointers, you lose a lot of score. Takes a solid 10 pt to get to 150 and above, both with mass and height.

You then throw in rut stress, hard winters up here for us, predators, poaching, and hunters taking a significant number of 2-3 yo and the pool gets smaller, and genetics aren't allowed to be realized. It takes a very smart buck to get through the war zone here to get to 4.5 - 5.5. that

In one of my discussions with Steve Bartylla who I respect alot as being very reasonable in his assessment, said that 140 class buck is a good buck and that some bucks in the north will actually start to go downhill after 5.5 up north. he also concurred that the right conditions & genetics need to be in place to crack that 150 mark.

I agree 100%. I should have specified my 400’acres is two different pieces of property - 350 acres and 62 acres - eight miles apart. There were three bucks using the 62 acres that were mature deer and the others were on the 350 acres. I am a firm believer that there is a better chance of having more mature bucks on ten 40 acre tracks than one 400 acre tract. That would be a logistical nightmare - but I digress.

We have cover. We have cover everywhere. Dog runners are becoming a thing of the past - so when you have a 200 acre, five year old grown up clearcut - a buck never HAS to leave cover - oftentimes there would be food, water, and plenty of does right there. We have fawn predators, but no real serious adult deer predators. We dont have winter kill. Very little ehd. We are not in a cwd zone - yet. And I believe most of our hunters who own or control 100 acres or more have at least some thought of trigger control - at least going into season. I also believe that our hunters, in general, dont hunt with the fever they used to hunt with when seasons were shorter. They are more laid back, not many take a week off to hunt like they all used to - and I believe we are also experiencing a small amount amount of declining hunter numbers like most states.

I think we are at the best we can be here right now. We do have a few areas of big ag in the state that turn out some really big deer - but those are high dollar lands confined to less than 20% of the state - not in the wheel house of most of us.

There are some positives to not owning deer property in the most noted areas: little NR interest, lower land prices, lower lease prices, little deer hunting publicity. If my main goal was killing 150” deer every year, no, I would not look to most of AR for my hunting land. But to be honest, knowing that us deer hunters are fairly accomplished complainers - it doesnt sound like many areas check all the boxes - except Native’s ground

 

[Angus 1895]

I am a champion of Dinks!

A female friend of mine axed me what are those?

Dinkathon entries!

 

[West_Fork]

I don't allow deer hunting. Between the elk and poachers, there isn't much left of the deer these days.

 

[Mortenson]

Here's my forecast for the year. Assuming these bucks made it thru the winter and didn't get govt sniped before April, or road killed since then, I'll have 3 5.5 year old 8 pointers who at least make a few appearances into our farm during the fall. As 4.5s last yr they were 140, 140, and a heavier but shorter tined 130. I think odds say 1 will jump to 145 or 150, 1 will stay the same and 1 will shrink. I'll probably shoot any of them assuming I like how their rack looks. We'll also have a 6.5 yr old buck who's been a light bodied 11 point typical the past couple yrs. We've found his sheds 4 straight yrs now but never seen him alive. He breaks points every yr. I doubt I'd shoot him, but my son chris really wants him. I doubt we see any deer over 160" this yr.

Also, and this may go without saying, but I'd rather shoot a 146" 8 than a 152" 12.

 

[Native Hunter]

I agree 100%. I should have specified my 400’acres is two different pieces of property - 350 acres and 62 acres - eight miles apart. There were three bucks using the 62 acres that were mature deer and the others were on the 350 acres. I am a firm believer that there is a better chance of having more mature bucks on ten 40 acre tracks than one 400 acre tract. That would be a logistical nightmare - but I digress.

We have cover. We have cover everywhere. Dog runners are becoming a thing of the past - so when you have a 200 acre, five year old grown up clearcut - a buck never HAS to leave cover - oftentimes there would be food, water, and plenty of does right there. We have fawn predators, but no real serious adult deer predators. We dont have winter kill. Very little ehd. We are not in a cwd zone - yet. And I believe most of our hunters who own or control 100 acres or more have at least some thought of trigger control - at least going into season. I also believe that our hunters, in general, dont hunt with the fever they used to hunt with when seasons were shorter. They are more laid back, not many take a week off to hunt like they all used to - and I believe we are also experiencing a small amount amount of declining hunter numbers like most states.

I think we are at the best we can be here right now. We do have a few areas of big ag in the state that turn out some really big deer - but those are high dollar lands confined to less than 20% of the state - not in the wheel house of most of us.

There are some positives to not owning deer property in the most noted areas: little NR interest, lower land prices, lower lease prices, little deer hunting publicity. If my main goal was killing 150” deer every year, no, I would not look to most of AR for my hunting land. But to be honest, knowing that us deer hunters are fairly accomplished complainers - it doesnt sound like many areas check all the boxes - except Native’s ground

If I had all the boxes checked, I wouldn't still be working as hard as I am!

 

[Tree Spud]

If I had all the boxes checked, I wouldn't still be working as hard as I am!

Habitat work is not a destination, it's a journey. Kinda like that old house that becomes a money pit

 

[MadMadHoosier]

What part of Western Kentucky Howboutthemdawgs? Our farm is between Princeton and Providence and I’ll be up the 18th-23rd if you wanted to meet for lunch sometime.

About the 150 class deer question….. 20+ years ago we bought 200 acres, next to a friends 1200 acres, expecting to be able to manage a few nice deer each year. Over the years our farm grew to 550 acres and another friend bought 450 adjacent acres. So between us we had over 2000 acres and STILL my best deer yet is 142”. About 10 years ago a 180 class deer was taken on a piece we now own, but nothing like that since. Several years ago a guy secured a lease on 117 adjacent acres and started selling hunts . The “customers” shot anything with horns that walked by and trespassed way too often. Last year the landowner passed away and I was able to buy the land from his son and shut down the lease. About the happiest purchase I’ve ever made, even though I paid way too much. We still have a number of smaller owners dispersed around our properties, and they may not be as picky as us, but that is probably normal everywhere. I’m still excited for the future and hope to eventually get that trophy of a lifetime. Until then I take a few doe each year for meat and enjoy the heck out of the property. This year is showing some promise.

 

[Bszweda]

I'm happy with a 130 to 150. My first piece I bought was a 20 acre piece in northern mo for 37,500. I had never killed a deer, but wanted to get into hunting( my wife thought I was crazy) That piece was killer for hunting Just a big rut funnel huge gully creek, and the end of the point just happened to be on my property. I shot a 143 off of it. It was mindless hunting and I didn't have to do any habitat work, but if you sat it a week in Nov you had a good chance at a 140 to 160. I probably shouldn't have sold it, but I wanted more acreage and a property that had ROI, and I could plant stuff on. Its a lot of time, work, and money.

 

[SwampCat]

While I may have seven or eight mature bucks each year, it is still a very small chance of one of them being a 150” deer. The deer below is a 5.5 yr old buck one of my grand daughters killed last year. I dont know what it would have scored - but not much.



Below is what I think to be the biggest bodied deer i ever got on camera. He was 7.5 yrs old by our estimate - we had five years of history with him. He never had a set of antlers that would have made 125”.




We have quite a few deer that look like the deer below - maybe 120/125” deer that will never be close to 150

The deer below is a true anomaly. He is a younger deer 3/4 yr old. He has ten pts and decent tine length - but not long g2’s. I have high hopes for him. Everything has to be perfect around here for a deer to score 150. We have killed a 158.5 and a 155. We also have killed two 148.5 and a 149. We have killed multiple 140’s that would never make 150. But that is in 20 years.



Arkansas is a two buck state - doesnt matter if you kill them with a .300 win or a longbow. A lot of folks consider a two buck limit almost criminal for producing trophy quality deer. I think in reality, it is not as bad as a lot of folks think. In our state, it is something like 20% of hunters kill two bucks. Our harvest ratio between bucks and does is about 50/50. The two buck limit allows us to take these mature bucks that wont ever be a wall hanger - and still hold a tag for a monster - and we usually burn that tag.

To be honest, a lot of comments on this thread from folks who live in states recognized as have much better buck potential - have made me feel better about where I live.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

What part of Western Kentucky Howboutthemdawgs? Our farm is between Princeton and Providence and I’ll be up the 18th-23rd if you wanted to meet for lunch sometime.

About the 150 class deer question….. 20+ years ago we bought 200 acres, next to a friends 1200 acres, expecting to be able to manage a few nice deer each year. Over the years our farm grew to 550 acres and another friend bought 450 adjacent acres. So between us we had over 2000 acres and STILL my best deer yet is 142”. About 10 years ago a 180 class deer was taken on a piece we now own, but nothing like that since. Several years ago a guy secured a lease on 117 adjacent acres and started selling hunts . The “customers” shot anything with horns that walked by and trespassed way too often. Last year the landowner passed away and I was able to buy the land from his son and shut down the lease. About the happiest purchase I’ve ever made, even though I paid way too much. We still have a number of smaller owners dispersed around our properties, and they may not be as picky as us, but that is probably normal everywhere. I’m still excited for the future and hope to eventually get that trophy of a lifetime. Until then I take a few doe each year for meat and enjoy the heck out of the property. This year is showing some promise.

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I’m about an 45 minutes east of you. Would love to grab a bite. I’m here now, let me see what the old lady has planned but I hope to be up a couple of those days too.

 

[Mortenson]

We have some real turd burglars too. We picked up a weird 3 point shed this winter from an unrecognizable buck. Poured thru a bunch of trail cam pics and learned he's been on our farm several times. His other side is a 1 point spike. He looked to me like the body of a 4.5+. I guess he'd score well below a hundred. Another buck I think was 4.5 last fall was coming around the last couple yrs. Just never lay eyes on him and nobody shot him as far as I know. Neat looking, heavy horned deer, a little junk at the bases, probably score 125". I will definitely use a bow tag on 1 of these bucks if given a chance.

 

[Mortenson]

Here's 1 of the bucks I just mentioned. I actually kinda like him. I'd consider taking him opening morning this fall if he gave a good shot.

 

[Mortenson]

And the other... I think this picture was from December sometime. Would you guys call him at least 4.5? Even older I'm thinking. We looked for that 1 point shed pretty hard, haha. Wanted to match him up. Chris wanted to stand under the old (removed) train tracks.

 

[Angus 1895]

And the other... I think this picture was from December sometime. Would you guys call him at least 4.5? Even older I'm thinking. We looked for that 1 point shed pretty hard, haha. Wanted to match him up. Chris wanted to stand under the old (removed) train tracks.

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That right there looks like he would be better “ chilling “ in yer freezer than tending does.


Is that his son behind him?

 

[Mortenson]

Lol, I agree. That dude was meant to be summer sausage. It could very well be his son. Although if it's just a yearling, in my opinion, it's a decent frame. I know Baker doesn't put any stock in yearling racks though. 30 years ago we seemed to get lots of 8-10 point yearlings. Nowadays, many are spikes on up to 8. Now I'll mention another buck we expect to see this fall. Called the Toby Buck, because my son Toby found his yearling sheds when he was 5. Those sheds were massive for a yearling, with beading halfway up the beams even. He was definitely a yearling, based on many pics and sightings. The following year he made an appropriate jump. Last fall as a 3.5, he was probably smaller than as a 2.5. Maybe 108". He has a strong, healthy body. Not sure what to expect this fall as a 4.5, but not expecting much! My son Chris says he's eager to take him no matter what. If you saw his yearling sheds, you'd think future massive booner. Nope, not in the cards for Toby.