Plum Thicket Planting Density Question

[Lot2Learn]

This Spring I'm planting a row of Chickasaw plum seedlings that I'd like to form a 175' long thicket.

I've never planted plums and I don't know how long they take to form a thicket.

My current plan is to plant:
- a single seedling, with a 3'x3' weed mat every 20'
- no tree tube, but a T-post securing a 1' diameter 5' welded wire fence

Questions:
- Would a short (12-18") tree tube make sense?
- Do thickets form so fast that my strategy is over kill and I should just plant more seedlings at a lower fence density?

I'll be planting a row of American Plum specimen trees (e.g., protected by 5' tubes) nearby so pollination won't be a problem.

I'm in Virginia, Zone 7a. I'm over 60 years old, so time-to-goal is an important consideration.

Thanks in advance, Lot2Learn

 

[Tree Spud]

I would remove the weed mat as it will inhibit suckering of shoots off the roots which is what leads to a thicket.

Tree tubes to at least chin high would be best to protect the trees. You could use 2x4 welded wire also.

I would plant 2-3 rows at least.

To get a somewhat dense thicket, could be 5-7 years depending on soil & weather conditions.

 

[Turkey Creek]

20' spacing is way too far apart IMO if a thicket is your goal. 3' spacing will accomplish your goals much quicker. Deer density determines how much protection they need.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I have been planting thickets of American plums, and I have used a combination of cages and tubes. American plums do really well in tree tubes, but I am not sure about the Chickasaw plums. Right about the time you start finding the plums growing out of the tubes, the same seedlings are also sending up suckers. I leave the bare root seedlings and tree tubes for 2 to 3 years and then switch them over to cages, making sure to still protect the base of the original seedling with metal window screen after replacing the tubes with cages.

I also experimented a little bit using hog panel fencing and no other protection. Even before the winter, rabbits and other rodents found the unprotected seedlings.

I would do denser pockets and get them above the browse line of deer and then rotate the tubes and cages to new sections. 3-5' planting density is ideal, with multiple rows deep.

 

[bwoods11]

Id use weed mat to start , maybe 8 -9 feet ? I guess that’s what I did.

 

[Mortenson]

Several years back I planted a bunch of shrubs. Probably 7 or 8 different types. None were protected. The only ones that not only survived, but did really well, were american plums. They were on 9' spacing and it's definitely a thicket today. I looked back at pictures - it was in 2015. So our deer densities were down somewhat after terrible ehd in '12&'13, but starting to rebound.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I planted 100 of them about 5 years ago. We had a few dry years and I trimmed the grass around them about twice a year. They have done poorly and I bet that haven't even grown 2' in that time. Most of them survived but have not thrived.

 

[BrushyPines]

I planted 5 chickasaw plums in 2019 and some just started suckering about a year or 2 ago. A thicket has not formed just yet, but it's getting there! Not sure on how far apart they are, but I'd say 4-5 feet. I would definitely try to protect them until they are established. I have deer nipping the ends of branches that are growing past the fencing all of the time. I don't think they would have survived without fencing.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I want my plums to be thick and bushy, so I prefer cages over tubes for the American Plums that I've planted. I've never used a weed mat of any kind. I planted a bunch in 2013 and the plums that were either caged or planted in areas that prevented deer browse are now awesome looking 10+ foot tall shrubs that produce a lot of fruit and send out suckers everywhere. The plums that were not caged were browsed heavily and are now maybe 2-3' tall. I've since placed cages on some of these plums for a couple years to get them above the deer browsing height and that has worked well.

I prefer using a larger cage, typically around 3-4 feet in diameter as that allows the plants to grow more lateral branches that wildlife can hide under.

 

[buckdeer1]

The sandhill or chickasaw plums will get some height on them but they are no the same as american plum trees. I will not claim to be a sandhill plum expert but my ground is sandy and I can remember picking them as kids.Over the years most of them got killed out. I have planted around 3000 of them over the years. First thing is I would not invest the time or money for tubes and mats. Most of my plots were planted around 4ft apart and rows 4ft apart.My last couple plots I did 4ft apart in rows that were 8-10 ft apart.I usually mow in between these to try and encourage the NWSG to grow for game birds and deer bedding.So patches were planted under EQUIP program and I had to lay 8 ft wide matting down first. I will get some pics tonight. I would find a seedling planter and use that if going 175ft and buy them from a state nursery such as KS or MO.They are my favorite nesting and eating shrub

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I planted 100 of them about 5 years ago. We had a few dry years and I trimmed the grass around them about twice a year. They have done poorly and I bet that haven't even grown 2' in that time. Most of them survived but have not thrived.

Did you cage or tube the plums you planted? If not, I bet browsing pressure is the reason they aren't thriving. Throw a cage around one this spring as a test to see the difference in 2 years. I've done that and it is pretty crazy to see the difference between caged and uncaged plums growing next to each other.

 

[Catscratch]

I have plums native. I believe they are Sand Hill plum. I routinely collect seed from what's already on the place and drop them where I want a new thicket to form. Works surprisingly well. I wouldn't be afraid to seed it instead of seedlings, and in my experience protection isn't really needed.

 

[PatinPA]

I planted a mix of plums in groups of 5 and put a large cage around them. They aren't planted in the most ideal spots but after 5 years I have seen a single sucker off of any of them and only one group of 5 is about 6 feet tall. That group looks great. I'm thinking about uncaging it and seeing what happens next year. No fruit on any yet that I've seen either.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I've also had great luck collecting plums in late summer and immediately planting them under an inch of soil wherever I would like a future plum thicket growing.

 

[Bill]

The weed mat will actually work if it’s only 3 foot wide. I planted a thicket of American plums in a Gallagher style electric fence and used plastic weed mat. They eventually sent suckers beyond the 18” from center.

 

[marlin]

These were planted in tubes and then fenced. 15 foot apart. I have hundreds of American plum on my property that I’ve planted. It’s funny in some areas they spread aggressively and some areas not at all. I like making islands in fields. A White Pine -two or three Norway’s and the southwest side of the grouping American plum.

 

[bigboreblr]

soil type, quality, and how wet is the area? What the prupose of the plum thicket? Certain plum varieties do better is some soils. I'd contact your local soil and water. Plum can be used as mine remidiation in poor soil areas, beach varieties in very sandy soils. Might be some other plants you can mix in there, incase plum doesn't cut it. Only 1ft diameter cages, I'd lean toward a 2x4 mesh. Larger mesh sizes might not protect them from small animals like rabbits.

When I do apple or any planting I add in some agriform tablets. Do you have a soil sample of the area? Ideal pH is about 6.5

 

[buckdeer1]

Those are american plums ,not chickisaw {sandhill} here is the last patch i planted.They don't have purple fruit they will have a green turning to orange then red if you beat the wildlife to them.I have pics of deer,rabbits,quail eating them

 

[buckdeer1]

The pic from Marlin is a very healthy regular plum or maybe american plum.Sure looks like it produces good.I also have some but they grow more like a tree but look just like that

 

[homerj]

I've never seen a blue or purple American plum