Phloem and Gravity

Dan

Buck Fawn
Phloem sends photoassimilates (photosynthetic food) down from the leaves to the rest of the plant. (In this case, tree)

My question is, how fast do the photoassimilates move down the tree through the phloem? Does gravity assist movement? Does it move faster or slower than gravity?
 
Why would you like to know? I have no answer, just curious as to what spurred the question.
 
I'll take a crack at this. In a vacuum objects fall (due to gravity) at 9.8 m/sec/sec. So the sugars in the phloem are certainly not moving faster than that. The movement of those sugars is caused by pressure differences, just like the upward sap flow in maples during the spring. How fast do those sugars move? No idea. Does gravity assist? My guess is that it does.
 
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That question gave me a flashback to Freshman Biology classes that made me realize I wasn't meant to be a biology major.
 
That question gave me a flashback to Freshman Biology classes that made me realize I wasn't meant to be a biology major.
I have a degree in biology and this is above my pay grade if that makes you feel any better. LOL!
 
I'm going to spit ball it... Sap moves up the tree because water evaporates through the stoma of the leafs, creating a pressure difference that overcomes gravity and allows fluids to move vertically to replace the lost moisture. Kind of fills the void. Once the leafs stop transpiration the fluids "fall" down the trunk. They're slow though because of viscosity and friction.



I may or may not have had a barley pop or 2 tonight, so your bs meter should be pegged by now (if you bothered to read this far)!
 
I have no idea how to answer this question so I thought this would be a good one for Chat GPT. I don’t know if its answer is correct. Chat GPT always presents a follow up question to engage the reader. I included it.


Good question — let’s break it down carefully.

First:


How fast do photoassimilates move through the phloem?


• In trees and other plants, phloem sap moves at about 0.5 to 1.0 meters per hour on average.


• In some plants under optimal conditions, speeds can reach up to 1–2 cm per minute, which is about 1.2 meters per hour.

It’s much slower than, say, blood flow in animals, but it’s still quite steady. In very tall trees, it can take hours to days for sugars to move from leaves at the top down to roots.


Does gravity assist the movement?


• No. Phloem transport is driven by pressure differences — not gravity.


• The process is called pressure-flow (or the Münch hypothesis).


• Sugars made in the leaves (“source”) are loaded into phloem cells, which draws water into the phloem from the nearby xylem (osmosis).


This builds up turgor pressure at the source.


• At the “sink” (e.g., roots, fruits, growing tissues), sugars are unloaded, which lowers the pressure.


• This pressure difference pushes the phloem sap through the plant, regardless of direction — up, down, sideways.


Gravity does not speed it up, and phloem can even move sugars upward against gravity when needed.


Does phloem move faster or slower than gravity?


• Gravity is “instantaneous” (things fall at ~9.8 m/s²), so gravity-driven movement would be much faster if that were the mechanism.


• Since phloem flow relies on pressure gradients and osmotic processes, it’s much slower than free-falling objects under gravity.


In short:


• ~0.5–1.0 meters per hour in trees.


• Gravity does not assist phloem movement.


• Phloem moves much slower than gravity would move something.


Would you like me to also explain how environmental factors (like drought or cold) can slow or change phloem speed in trees? It’s pretty interesting, especially for big trees!
 
I honestly think that due to them being pressure systems we ought to just ignore gravity as a constant as it would have impacts but the only way it wouldn’t have an impact both upward (xylem) or downward (phloem) is if the constant was removed.

So if we want to examine what drives these and the rates at which they are driven- we need to examine the modes of movement, pressure changes, etc. vs. worrying about the constant.

My opinion.
 
I have no idea how to answer this question so I thought this would be a good one for Chat GPT. I don’t know if its answer is correct. Chat GPT always presents a follow up question to engage the reader. I included it.


Good question — let’s break it down carefully.

First:


How fast do photoassimilates move through the phloem?


• In trees and other plants, phloem sap moves at about 0.5 to 1.0 meters per hour on average.


• In some plants under optimal conditions, speeds can reach up to 1–2 cm per minute, which is about 1.2 meters per hour.

It’s much slower than, say, blood flow in animals, but it’s still quite steady. In very tall trees, it can take hours to days for sugars to move from leaves at the top down to roots.


Does gravity assist the movement?


• No. Phloem transport is driven by pressure differences — not gravity.


• The process is called pressure-flow (or the Münch hypothesis).


• Sugars made in the leaves (“source”) are loaded into phloem cells, which draws water into the phloem from the nearby xylem (osmosis).


This builds up turgor pressure at the source.


• At the “sink” (e.g., roots, fruits, growing tissues), sugars are unloaded, which lowers the pressure.


• This pressure difference pushes the phloem sap through the plant, regardless of direction — up, down, sideways.


Gravity does not speed it up, and phloem can even move sugars upward against gravity when needed.


Does phloem move faster or slower than gravity?


• Gravity is “instantaneous” (things fall at ~9.8 m/s²), so gravity-driven movement would be much faster if that were the mechanism.


• Since phloem flow relies on pressure gradients and osmotic processes, it’s much slower than free-falling objects under gravity.


In short:


• ~0.5–1.0 meters per hour in trees.


• Gravity does not assist phloem movement.


• Phloem moves much slower than gravity would move something.


Would you like me to also explain how environmental factors (like drought or cold) can slow or change phloem speed in trees? It’s pretty interesting, especially for big trees!

Problem with this is Chat GPT thinks the Earth is round. Since it is flat, none of this answer applies…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Slow down and read the last question a little closer. "Does it [the photoassimilates] move faster or slower than gravity?

If Einstein was correct in his theory of general relativity, the answer seems to most certainly be "slower than gravity" He said that gravity moved at the speed of light. It's hard for me to believe that photoassimilates within a plant could move as fast or faster than the speed of light. Hence, my answer is "slower than gravity."
 
All I know is that I move slower than gravity in the morning until I get two cups of coffee in me! I’ll leave the physics and biology to you guys!
 
Slow down and read the last question a little closer. "Does it [the photoassimilates] move faster or slower than gravity?

If Einstein was correct in his theory of general relativity, the answer seems to most certainly be "slower than gravity" He said that gravity moved at the speed of light. It's hard for me to believe that photoassimilates within a plant could move as fast or faster than the speed of light. Hence, my answer is "slower than gravity."

Great point! The question is flawed, as gravity is a force measured in a constant acceleration (on Earth).

I believe that gravity is only suggested to travel at the speed of light (per The Special Theory of Relativity) when referring to the propagation of gravity—like a star exploding or something—that alters the previous gravitational force in that section of space/time, causing the ripple effect. However, my understanding could be flawed, as I have only read a handful of books on Einstein's theory and physics in general.

Einstein defined gravity as a force that impacts the curvature of space and time. We can also consider it a constant acceleration force in a vacuum (no air resistance, for example).

Of course, gravity on Earth is constant regardless of an object's mass in a vacuum. This changes if the initial speed is faster or slower than that of the competing object, but the acceleration force of gravity on both objects remains constant.

That is, on Earth, we wouldn't measure something as slower or faster than gravity. The force is constant. Therefore, the question is flawed, and the gravitational force for both the xylem and phloem would be the same, and can be disregarded. We can then focus on the plant physiological impacts of how/why and at what rate do these things move.

Again my opinion. It's rainy out today!! HAHA
 
I think it all depends on which side of the Earth you’re on. Gravity is only on one side of a flat Earth.
 
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