Persimmons in Upstate NY

[Hoytvectrix]

Wild so I could have some that never produce fruit but are needed for politization? Ive been growing fruit trees my whole life and haven't run into a tree like this yet if that's the case.

Yes, @RGrizzzz mentioned that above. There are some great threads on this forum on how to graft persimmon trees. You can convert some of the males over to females to produce fruit.

You can also apparently propagate persimmons by cuttings, but it looks like the success of this is even less than grafting and of course you need to have the plant material first:

 

[Teeder]

If I read it correctly on Blue Hill's website, the female trees I bought do not need a male to produce fruit.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Wild so I could have some that never produce fruit but are needed for politization? I've been growing fruit trees my whole life and haven't run into a tree like this yet if that's the case.

Correct. I'd suggest planting twice as many as you think you need, and prune out the males, or graft them to female. I believe I read you need about 1 male for 6 female trees. There are self-fertile female trees, which is what most people will buy. Folks have mentioned the named varieties here. They're exceedingly rare, so don't expect anything you grow from seed to be self fertile.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Correct. I'd suggest planting twice as many as you think you need, and prune out the males, or graft them to female. I believe I read you need about 1 male for 6 female trees. There are self-fertile female trees, which is what most people will buy. Folks have mentioned the named varieties here. They're exceedingly rare, so don't expect anything you grow from seed to be self fertile.

Next year I was going to start grafting some females into male trees. These are all American persimmon from MDC and are for wildlife, so I am not quite as concerned about fruit production. Would I be better off leaving a few branches of the males or just top work the trees and switch them over to female?

 

[RGrizzzz]

Next year I was going to start grafting some females into male trees. These are all American persimmon from MDC and are for wildlife, so I am not quite as concerned about fruit production. Would I be better off leaving a few branches of the males or just top work the trees and switch them over to female?

I'd top work most of them to known cultivars. Pick ones that drop around the times you want to hunt.

 

[Native Hunter]

Female persimmon trees don't need a male to pollinate them in order for the females to set fruit. Persimmons can set fruit parthenocarpically. You only need a male if you want viable seed in the fruit that is set. With no male pollination, the females will still produce fruit, but the seed (if any) inside the fruit will be sterile.

 

[Teeder]

Right, and it's the fruit the deer want and not the seed.

 

[Belo]

Well shit, that changes things. I couldn't care less about the seed.

 

[Belo]

Just placed an order for a bundle of 5 from twisted tree. Solid pricing for a bundle of 5. Thank you all, will keep you updated.

Oddly enough of the 7 I planted from whitetailhill, 1 actually did seem to sprout some leaves way later in the summer and nother seemed to have sprouted an offshoot from the root I planted. I left the other 5 just for giggles, but at least 1 is 100% dead haha.

 

[bigboreblr]

Dont know much about permissions, but thats a high death rate. Maybe plant them at your house or in pots and transplant them in the fall. This way they're dug up and replanted quick.

I see better results with fall planting with apple trees.

mehrabyan nursery in ithaca, NY has some permissions for sale. Im happy with his rootstocks and grafted apples. Theyre called americna permissions. Don't seem to be a fancy variety. Might get lucky with the scion exchange we have on here in a month or two.

 

[Belo]

Dont know much about permissions, but thats a high death rate. Maybe plant them at your house or in pots and transplant them in the fall. This way they're dug up and replanted quick.

I see better results with fall planting with apple trees.

mehrabyan nursery in ithaca, NY has some permissions for sale. Im happy with his rootstocks and grafted apples. Theyre called americna permissions. Don't seem to be a fancy variety. Might get lucky with the scion exchange we have on here in a month or two.

indeed it was, thankfully they refunded me the whole bit. I planted 6 chestnuts and like 11 oaks last year and 8 evergreens. Everything but the persimmons and 1 doug fir made it, so I'm chalking it up to the "batch".

 

[bigboreblr]

I've had 2 or 3 bad batches from the nysdec nursery. too dry...... think all times were white spruce. I order it just about every year.

If trying to gratf permission, maybe plant the rootstock as is, leave it be for a year, then graft the next spring. sterilize the cutting with a wipe down of bleach and water. kills mold. Then hydrate the cutting in a bowl for an hour or so, then graft. 39th paralel nursery helped me out with some tips after a somewhat bad grafting attempt a few years back.

Might be a mold thing, but in NY tree tubes aren't very successful overall in my observation. IF on a budget, use 4ft 1/4" mesh for cheap tree protection. I use about 2-2.5ft per tree. When the tree is mature, you can protect an 8 inch trunk from deer and rabbit damage with that mesh. Permissions probably get a good bit bigger than 8 inches. Not sure if crown rot is an issue, give a little space between mulch and the young trunk. I use a bit of that shredded tire mulch inside my small cages, and stone on the outside. Might even be a decent idea to not mulch around the tree until mid to late may. Might get too wet early.

 

[Apple Junkie]

This is an interesting exchange, thanks for the tips, guys. I’m going introduce some permission trees to our camp in Steuben County. If they take off; it will add another food option and a different look than a wild orchard. Good tips – thanks!

 

[Teeder]

I had no luck getting persimmons to grow here until I bought from Bluehill. He collects from more northern sources and it seems to be making a difference for me.

If you look closely, you can see my tree tubes are doubled up. Doubles the diameter and allows alot more airflow.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

If you look closely, you can see my tree tubes are doubled up. Doubles the diameter and allows alot more airflow.

That is a fantastic idea! I have a bunch of those tree pro tubes that I am not a huge fan of. This would give me a use for them and they might even work better.

 

[Teeder]

That is a fantastic idea! I have a bunch of those tree pro tubes that I am not a huge fan of. This would give me a use for them and they might even work better.

I use the same method for newly grafted apples for the first year, then cage them.

 

[bigboreblr]

Stueden, My hunting club is north of old forge by stillwater resevoir. I hunt farmland by the thruway fort plain / canajohaire. Most of my apple trees are by the hudson river near hudson / catskill.

Mix in some peat moss. Trees grow a good bit faster. Not too much in the spot. Loose soil is an invitation for voles to eat up the roots.

 

[chickenlittle]

Here is a photo of my neighbor's persimmon tree in Tioga county. Taken Feb 1 2022. Very popular with the local deer population. Been meaning to stop by with my daughter to ask if we can pick a bunch of fruit and start from seed. I have a few seedling from this tree in my nursery bed that I gathered 2 years ago.