Persimmons in NY?

[TCW]

I am located along the shore of lake ontario in apple country. I've been wanting to add persimmons to the mix of fruit/nut trees on my property. I keep hearing/reading mixed things about successfully growing them in my area. According to the USDA map im in zone 6a. I decided to give them a try. This past weekend i planted 1 grafted female american, 2 meader, and 2 yates. all of these supposedly grow to zone 5. I was curious if anybody has had success growing persimmons this far north or farther and if anybody has actually had any successfully bare fruit.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Rally1148]

There is another member here from Michigan that is attempting to grow them. I know of a nursery or two in Southern and mid-Michigan that grow them. One of these nurseries I don't buy from, as they are full of bull. They are the equivalent of a BOB nursery. The other source (Coldstream) said that they do not grow them themselves, so they can't say if they do or don't produce fruit. I would say that you'd probably be able to get them to grow, but it'd be a real crap-shoot as to whether they'd produce.

 

[TMIL]

I'm not north, but I'm in Zone 6 and we have lots of wild persimmons here.

 

[TCW]

Thanks guys. I guess time will tell.....

 

[buckvelvet]

I've read the same thing about Paw-Paw in michigan, i don't know the answer on those either.

 

[Rally1148]

I've read the same thing about Paw-Paw in michigan, i don't know the answer on those either.

PawPaw will definately work in Michigan. At least the southern part. If you're against the lake, you might be able to get them going up there in Mason County. I've seen them growing in the Kalamazoo area (dare I say the Paw Paw area?).

 

[SD51555]

Go for it. I've been trying all sorts of long shot ideas. U won't know if u don't try. Just don't bet the whole farm on it.

Marv thought we couldn't get a spray and pray to go last year. I soil tested, amended, sprayed and prayed. We got a darn nice plot. I keep reminding him about his doubt.

 

[Rally1148]

I contacted someone who is in charge of the persimmon group in the Michigan Nut Growers Associated (really it's Fruit & Nut growers). Here is what he said. He was EXTREMELY helpful, and even invited me to their summer meeting and gave me his # if I ever needed advice. If you've got anything like that in NY, I'd say give them an email!

Here is what he said:

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the note. We're always glad to weigh in with opinions about growing fruits and nuts around the state. The American persimmon does quite well here in the lower peninsula until you get somewhere around the Mt Pleasant area and then it has challenges as you go further north. Some of the best persimmons that I've seen grown in the state are out of Williamston (just east of E. Lansing) and they do beautifully. The earlier ripening varieties are probably the best choices for Michigan, with Yates, Geneva Long, Garretson, and John Rick being particularly good. Oikos Tree Crops, which is just outside Kalamazoo is a great source for seedling trees but you won't know ahead of time whether you'll have great fruit, seedy fruit, early fruit, or late fruit. If you're looking to buy many trees to plant for both wildlife and fruit harvest, that would be where I'd look first. Grafted trees that are named varieties will cost much more so my suggestion would be to buy the small seedlings, let them get established a couple years and then graft named known varieties onto a handful of them to ensure a good crop of quality fruit. The MNGA is full of people who know how to graft and we could teach you how in about 5 minutes.

 

[chickenlittle]

Great suggestion but a few days late as the NY Nutgrowers had their spring meeting today. There was a half hour talk on persimmons and paw paws. I went to their summer meeting last year and got some good info on chestnuts. They usually have a tour of a grower's orchard in the afternoon. www.nynga.org had the agenda for the meeting.

 

[scott44]

I contacted someone who is in charge of the persimmon group in the Michigan Nut Growers Associated (really it's Fruit & Nut growers). Here is what he said. He was EXTREMELY helpful, and even invited me to their summer meeting and gave me his # if I ever needed advice. If you've got anything like that in NY, I'd say give them an email!

Here is what he said:

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the note. We're always glad to weigh in with opinions about growing fruits and nuts around the state. The American persimmon does quite well here in the lower peninsula until you get somewhere around the Mt Pleasant area and then it has challenges as you go further north. Some of the best persimmons that I've seen grown in the state are out of Williamston (just east of E. Lansing) and they do beautifully. The earlier ripening varieties are probably the best choices for Michigan, with Yates, Geneva Long, Garretson, and John Rick being particularly good. Oikos Tree Crops, which is just outside Kalamazoo is a great source for seedling trees but you won't know ahead of time whether you'll have great fruit, seedy fruit, early fruit, or late fruit. If you're looking to buy many trees to plant for both wildlife and fruit harvest, that would be where I'd look first. Grafted trees that are named varieties will cost much more so my suggestion would be to buy the small seedlings, let them get established a couple years and then graft named known varieties onto a handful of them to ensure a good crop of quality fruit. The MNGA is full of people who know how to graft and we could teach you how in about 5 minutes.

That's my neck of the woods, kind of what I was lead to believe. I thought I would give them a shot, I have about 30 I've started from seed and have to let you know how they do.

 

[Rally1148]

That's my neck of the woods, kind of what I was lead to believe. I thought I would give them a shot, I have about 30 I've started from seed and have to let you know how they do.

I'm not much farther South than you. I'm just south on 66 into Stanton. My girlfriend is from Mt. Pleasant though. GREAT area! You were who I initially was talking about in my initial post.

I think in this area it's almost dependent on the weather each year. I think that, more or less like the deer, if we have a string of bad winters they will struggle, but if we get two historically average winters while they get established they'll be fine.

 

[deepsleep]

I researched this topic extensively 3 or 4 years ago, and decided to plant Yates and Prok (from Stark) grafted persimmons and Oikos seedlings. I only put in 1 each of the grafted ones, and they struggled a bit the first couple of years, but seem to have taken off this past summer. I pruned up a few to the bottom shoots this winter to try to get it growing a bit upright. Also, some of them may have been on the rootstock (can't remember for sure).


As for the Oikos seedlings, I have now planted about 50 or them and have them tubed. They are not all in the best locations, but seem to be surviving just fine. I seem to be getting the best growth in some of the areas with a higher water table. These have survived the first year which was one of the worst droughts of my lifetime (the have lumite at the base), and also 2 winters ago which reached -22 F for sure, but maybe even colder. I am now pretty confident they will work long term. I will keep planting a dozen or so a year and will someday graft them if need be. From everything I read, the earliest possible fruit with seedlings seems to be 6 or 7 years. In our MI climate, I'd be surprised to see fruit before 9 or 10. Here is on of the Oikos seedlings peeking out of a 5' tube at the beginning of growing season 3.

 

[Rally1148]

Looks great!

I researched this topic extensively 3 or 4 years ago, and decided to plant Yates and Prok (from Stark) grafted persimmons and Oikos seedlings. I only put in 1 each of the grafted ones, and they struggled a bit the first couple of years, but seem to have taken off this past summer. I pruned up a few to the bottom shoots this winter to try to get it growing a bit upright. Also, some of them may have been on the rootstock (can't remember for sure).


As for the Oikos seedlings, I have now planted about 50 or them and have them tubed. They are not all in the best locations, but seem to be surviving just fine. I seem to be getting the best growth in some of the areas with a higher water table. These have survived the first year which was one of the worst droughts of my lifetime (the have lumite at the base), and also 2 winters ago which reached -22 F for sure, but maybe even colder. I am now pretty confident they will work long term. I will keep planting a dozen or so a year and will someday graft them if need be. From everything I read, the earliest possible fruit with seedlings seems to be 6 or 7 years. In our MI climate, I'd be surprised to see fruit before 9 or 10. Here is on of the Oikos seedlings peeking out of a 5' tube at the beginning of growing season 3.

 

[buckvelvet]

Now is persimmons like an apple or pear where tubing is a bad idea as the stems are very weak and the crotch angles are beyond bad. I speak from experience as I made this mistake on some last year.

I'd just like to try a paw paw as in eating the fruit, never seen one in person, let alone ate one. I'm to wary to plant one or a persimmons around my area, i'd rather stick w/ apples & pears because I know they can survive.