Opinions on Winter wheat vs winter rye

[Catscratch]

Wheat is by far the more attractive of the two at my place. Of course I've found deer have preferences that can be very different from one region to an other and what works for someone doesn't necessarily work for another.

I had read LC's thread on WW vs WR and had some discussions with him about the specifics. I bought into the soil building aspects of WR and ordered some. In every test I did (over several yrs) it was always obvious that the deer preferred to eat the wheat. I didn't feel that any soil building properties were worth not having deer use the plots. So now I just use wheat for my cereal grain and amend my soil as needed. As jbird had stated about WR; wheat will grow in the floor of your truck and stays green all winter long. It's also quite a bit cheaper than WR. Price might be a wash once fertilizer is factored in though.

Edge: As dogghr stated it's important. I plant all my plots in strips and observe deer relating to edge regardless of height. I'm planting with strips of natives between the plots. I feel the natives (some have roots stretching 12ft deep) are the best soil and water conservation species available and help the plots adjacent to them. They are also highly attractive when done right.

This pic was taken last night. The green on the right is native pasture that was winter burned. The green in the center is a mix of wheat, clovers, and brassicas. The brown to the left is millet. Left of that is more native, and so on. The deer are currently spending as much time in the winter burn as they are in the clover/grain plots. Lots of browse on the native forbs...

 

[Trophy Collector]

Do the turkeys prefer one over the other?

 

[Big Snow Man]

Not that I know of

 

[Catscratch]

I haven't seen that turkeys prefer one over the other. WR does get taller here if that matters...

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[yoderjac]

Do the turkeys prefer one over the other?

It depends on how you use them and what part of turkey management you are aiming at. The mix of fall planted cereal grains as a nurse crop for perennial clover are very advantageous to establishing a turkey population. Perennial clover greens up early and attracts insects. Bugs are 90% of a poults diet, so when planted proximate to good nesting cover, perennial clover can be a key in turkey management. You also need good vertical cover with bare ground under it adjoining the clover to protect poults from avian predators.

I prefer winter rye as a nurse crop for perennial clover because of the many reasons discussed in this thread. With this use, grain heads don't come into play because you mow the cereal before it heads-out. However, if you are planting it with a reseeding annual or other short-lived clover in the fall, having a long-term weed free perennial field is not a concern. In a case like this, I'm not worried about mowing the clover in the spring and let it head out. Winter rye grows much taller than WW. The seed heads our out of reach for smaller birds compared to winter wheat. So, this might be a case when you want to consider Winter Wheat.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

I haven't read every post, yet but has anyone in this thread addressed "awnless" wheat yet? I've heard it's more desirable, but I don't have experience with wheat of any kind.
Any comments about awnless?

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[Catscratch]

Tap, I have awnless planted right now. This is the first yr for me to plant it though. I'll know more about its attractiveness in a couple of months.

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[TreeDaddy]

Craig Harper has written articles in Quality Whitetails espousing virtues of awnless wheat

bill

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I think that is is just a texture thing for them. They also prefer "hairless" clovers and the like over varieties with hairs. I have also been curious about awnless cereals. If you are planning on letting them head out then its worth a shot. If your just going to till them under I wouldn't bother.

 

[yoderjac]

Awnless refers to the seed head. Really...who cares? Deer much prefer young cereal (any type) when it is just getting started in the fall and winter. This is when attraction matters. I rarely grow cereal for the grain heads, but when I do, deer preference on grain heads are not a concern. Cereal grain heads are used by deer, but not a highly attractive food source in the first place compared to the alternatives in my area.

It does help sell BOB seed to deer hunters though....

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

Awnless refers to the seed head. Really...who cares? Deer much prefer young cereal (any type) when it is just getting started in the fall and winter. This is when attraction matters. I rarely grow cereal for the grain heads, but when I do, deer preference on grain heads are not a concern. Cereal grain heads are used by deer, but not a highly attractive food source in the first place compared to the alternatives in my area.

It does help sell BOB seed to deer hunters though....

Thanks,

Jack

I do! Some of us want yr round nutrition and yr long security in their food plots. A varied food supply that keeps deer fed at times other than just an attractant for hunting season is one of my objectives. Another one of my objectives is to have deer frequenting my plots often enough that they are comfortable there and not nocturnal when the candy pops up around hunting season. Of course my goals are obviously different than yours, but I think attraction matters at times other than hunting season too.

You say wheat heads are not highly attractive, does this mean you've planted awnless and found it to be not attractive, or does it mean you plant regular wheat and found it not attractive, or have you done sided by side tests and found none of it attractive?

 

[yoderjac]

I do! Some of us want yr round nutrition and yr long security in their food plots. A varied food supply that keeps deer fed at times other than just an attractant for hunting season is one of my objectives. Another one of my objectives is to have deer frequenting my plots often enough that they are comfortable there and not nocturnal when the candy pops up around hunting season. Of course my goals are obviously different than yours, but I think attraction matters at times other than hunting season too.

You say wheat heads are not highly attractive, does this mean you've planted awnless and found it to be not attractive, or does it mean you plant regular wheat and found it not attractive, or have you done sided by side tests and found none of it attractive?

Catscratch,

What I'm saying is that cereal grain is great for some purposes. It is very attractive in the fall when young regardless of the type. It doesn't offer much in the spring when it loses it's tenderness. This is some food value in the seed heads but I consider it in relative terms to other deer foods during the period. Deer use my food plots year round and I rarely let cereal head out. Clover by contrast provides the early spring nutrition needed and with a clover like Durana, it lasts well into the summer. My soybean fields provided better summer nutrition and deer ignore cereal seed heads (awnless or not) for beans. Keep in mind that I'm in zone 7a and perhaps there are other consideration up north, but I haven't found cereal seed heads to cover any gaps in my program.

While my plots undoubtedly attract deer outside the season regardless of what I plant, that is not my objective. I don't care if they are eating native foods like pokeberry or the stuff I plant as long as they have a quality food option. Keep in mind that from a QDM perspective, our food plots are a small percentage of a deer's overall diet. The key to QDM plots is to fill the gaps mother nature leaves. For me summer is the major stress period and soybeans are probably the best way to cover that. Winter is a secondary stress period. Late spring and fall have an abundance of native foods.

In-season attraction has the advantage of knowing the destination of deer. If you can figure out the bedding and transit routes, you're in business. Outside the season, I only care that my deer have good nutrition options.

I'm not suggesting that there is no place for cereal grain heads. I have read the QW articles and I don't see a fit. That is not to say there is no fit for anyone. I just have not seen a convincing case where cereal grain heads are a significant factor in a program.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

I haven't read every post, yet but has anyone in this thread addressed "awnless" wheat yet? I've heard it's more desirable, but I don't have experience with wheat of any kind.
Any comments about awnless?

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Tap, here is what my awnless looks like as of yesterday. No signs of deer using it since it jointed out this spring but they are still in the plot every day due to the other stuff growing with it. The deer always eat the wheat heads when they are right, but I might see heavier use with the awnless.

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[j-bird]

Tap, here is what my awnless looks like as of yesterday. No signs of deer using it since it jointed out this spring but they are still in the plot every day due to the other stuff growing with it. The deer always eat the wheat heads when they are right, but I might see heavier use with the awnless.

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That's a nice looking mix they Cat.....lots of deer food! The thing you are talking about on the wheat is the stiff "hair" type thing on the seed head isn't it?

 

[Catscratch]

That's a nice looking mix they Cat.....lots of deer food! The thing you are talking about on the wheat is the stiff "hair" type thing on the seed head isn't it?

Yep. It looks like it's going to develop some of those hairs but they will be short. I honestly don't know if deer will use it more than regular wheat, but I do know deer love wheat here so nothing lost if it isn't preferred over normal wheat. I will have to pay close attention to see a difference in usage.

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[Bowsnbucks]

Great looking patch, Cat !! Something for any taste.
We planted WW & WR together in a mix last Labor Day weekend at camp. The deer have been eating in that big plot all fall, winter, & early spring with no real preference that we can see. Both get hammered about equally. This plot was planted right next to a big plot of mixed brassicas and deer moved between the plots all winter to feed.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Ive read somewhere that deer will hammer oat heads if planted at the right time so they are standing late in the season. I like the idea of having several different late season options for the deer. I dont have the acrage in plots to have to many options so I plant soys, and brassicas. (also have clover for a rotation) If I had more acreage to plant I just stick with soybeans planted at two week intervals of each other and overseed them with rye and or triticale. Maybe till up a strip through the middle for small percentage of brassicas.

 

[nitro27]

One thing I've noticed is that deer seem to browse more on a patch that had been fertilized over one that wasn't fertilized. This happen when I ran out of fertilizer and it started to rain and I never fertilized half the plot. The north half was browsed heavily and the south not much in comparison.

Anyone else have this experience?

 

[Catscratch]

One thing I've noticed is that deer seem to browse more on a patch that had been fertilized over one that wasn't fertilized. This happen when I ran out of fertilizer and it started to rain and I never fertilized half the plot. The north half was browsed heavily and the south not much in comparison.

Anyone else have this experience?

I've seen this when planting plots near ag fields. Farmers tend to NEED good production and fertilize accordingly. These fields can be hard to compete with for preference.

 

[yoderjac]

One thing I've noticed is that deer seem to browse more on a patch that had been fertilized over one that wasn't fertilized. This happen when I ran out of fertilizer and it started to rain and I never fertilized half the plot. The north half was browsed heavily and the south not much in comparison.

Anyone else have this experience?

You don't need to plant a crop to show this. Simply strip disc, lime, and fertilize and native forbs become much more attractive to deer.

Thanks,

Jack