Off Topic - Career Advice

[Spike_Horn_Shooter]

Just my thoughts. You already asked for and received a raise 2 years ago because of another job offer. If you do it again, your the boy that cried wolf. Your employer will have to be thinking “every time this guy gets a job offer, I’ve got to give him a raise.

Second: In the USMC, when Marines are promoted to the rank of Corporal, often they are moved into a different unit - this way new NCOs don’t have to supervise their friends and all the junior Marines always think of them as a superior. I tell you this because it’s likely that all the team members at your current position (boss, senior colleagues) think of you a certain way - as the junior engineer. The same way we always think of our kids as inexperienced - because most of our time spent with them were the senior. When you move to the new company - people will think of you as the engineer you are now - not the engineer you were 5 years ago.

Third: You have to in this period of inflation do everything you can to max your salary. My math says you take home about $60,000 a year now, that extra $1000/month is $12,000 a year. Do you really think your boss is going to give out 20% Cost of Living allowances - my guess, even if your a superstar you might get 5%.

Fourth - it’s work -they pay you for your time - make them pay you as much as you can while your there.

My experience - We are probably pretty close in terms of income. I tripled my salary in the last 10 years after I got out of the USMC. Each time it was a little scary. I had to move shops 3 times. Had I not moved I would probably have only increased about 20%. The extra money helps me save for retirement now and pay for my hunting adventures.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The other thing I was thinking about is if I feel like a subordinate is always job shopping for the highest wages I don’t really care about effort to retain them as it feels like they have a foot out the door already. There will almost always be someone out there willing to pay more and if that’s all their looking for good riddance.

All that to say, if you’re getting offers because you’re constantly looking it comes off worse than because a customer or client or someone who knows of you is trying to steal you.

 

[b116757]

We lost 600 on the management side since January 30th our company told management they would get a 4% raise Feb 1st many only received a 2% raise with inflation at 7.5% minimum for the year so 600 of them have walked of the property so far this year alone. Trains parked all over the place looks like a parking lot out there lately. Even the big class 1 railroads management teams got drug in front of the Surface Transportation Board in the last two weeks to explain why their service to their shippers has been so bad. In 1980 the Staggers act was passed that deregulated railways a great deal if the railroads don’t get their houses in order I could see congress passing new service requirements on them that will make their record profits over the last couple decades evaporate pretty quickly. A little off topic but my advice is talk with your current employer see if they will match the offer if not take the other offer. Remember it’s not just about the money it’s ONLY about the money I don’t work because I like any of the clowns around me I work to earn a living and retire comfortably.

 

[Brian662]

The tricky part with this one is I did this 2 years ago in the same situation (different company was recruiting me). I had a better offer presented to me out of the blue and I talked to my current employer and they gave me a raise to match. So I think at some point the current employer will say enough is enough. Not sure if how many times this is acceptable. Also I don't look loyal doing this too much. But what's a guy to do, I am more loyal to my family

Two years ago is a long time with the current job market. I'd give it a shot.

 

[bwoods11]

Are you living where you want to live ? Personally… I would take less money as long as I’m living where you want to be. You only get one life!

 

[westonwhitetail]

Are you living where you want to live ? Personally… I would take less money as long as I’m living where you want to be. You only get one life!

The companies are in the same city. But my current employer has changed policy to allow remote work permanently if we choose. So I like that flexibility, could build at the hunting land if we wanted to

 

[westonwhitetail]

Thanks all for the great feedback. I haven’t been actively looking. This other company has been calling since an old coworker moved there. I think in the engineering world and probably like a lot of industries, finding someone with 10 years experience and could jump into manage projects is difficult to find so they are actively recruiting.

I have a good relationship with my boss so I think he would pull for what he could get but like you guys said upper management may not go for it. I guess you don’t know if you don’t try. Id hate to leave my boss hanging with all the work out there to get done right now, but it’s pretty significant money on the table for me.

In the long run it changes things things for my family for sure. We could pay off our land quicker and add to it if the opportunity came. Also we have old vehicles and I am just waiting for one of those to go, so the extra income more easily provides for things like that

 

[roymunson]

if you've got a decent work environment, and are a quality human being to have on the team, I'd have a talk to your boss.

I am an employer, and it came to my attention a couple years back that one of my employees was wildly underpaid. He brought it up and he was right. I wasn't trying to get over on him, just had misjudged where things were at. We made it right and he still works here. But he knew it wasn't my intention to try to underpay him, and I knew he wasn't trying to do a cash grab. A good work environment and good rapport with those you interact with is very valuable. Maybe the new place has this too. But, you know what you've got now.

 

[bueller]

You said there was a lot of potential to move up at your current place. I know nothing about how promotions are done in your field but do yourself a favor and look forward 5-10 years and envision where you might be within each company before making a decision.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Waiting 10 years for the carrot is fine for those green behind the ears but not realistic for someone who already has 10 years experience in engineering world. Those folks if they are perceived to be fast tracked are getting those opportunities now or have solid plans within a couple years at most. Early 30s is when you see people make the big moves. If they are telling you sure about 5 to 10 yrs out you have missed the bus. Never base your career on some promise about 10 years from now, they are just blowing smoke.

 

[FarmerDan]

Sometimes it's better to dance with the devil you know than the one you don't! I heard that somewhere. With change come new hopes. It also comes with costs. Some you readily understand. Some you've probably not considered. The pendulum has swung to the side of "labor" and away from "management." The wage gap between the two has been unprecedentedly large for the last decade or two. Maybe it's narrowing now. Play a little mind game and try to imagine where you'll be in both your new and old positions when the pendulum swings back. You won't get either vision right, but if you can live with either perceived outcome you decision is probably made. There's this other thing - being open and honest. Me? I'd be careful. It might come with great rewards but it also comes with risks. Then I think you need to do a serious evaluation of your own talents and abilities. If you're really, really good at what you do and have a resume full of problems solved and progress made you'll never have a problem finding a great job.

 

[yoderjac]

One more thought to add to my previous post:

One of the reasons you ask for advise is that many on here have more experience. That means that many providing advise are likely older, me included. When I graduated from college, I started working for a company. That company was bought and sold multiple times and I worked for them for 36 years. I have both a 401K and a traditional pension. During my career time, the relationship between employers and employees was quite different. Loyalty was much more of a two way street. Things have evolved over time. Today, most companies don't have the same loyalty toward employees nor employees toward companies.

Just keep in mind that as the relationship between employees and employers changes over time, the experience that our advice is based on becomes less relevant. While it is important to seek advice as you consider significant life decisions, only you can weigh that advice and figure how much applies to your situation. Also keep in mind that there is rarely one "best" decision in matters like this. Either decision could turn out to have a much better or much worse outcome than the other, or they could be a wash.

Best of luck in whatever path you take!

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

if you've got a decent work environment, and are a quality human being to have on the team, I'd have a talk to your boss.

I am an employer, and it came to my attention a couple years back that one of my employees was wildly underpaid. He brought it up and he was right. I wasn't trying to get over on him, just had misjudged where things were at. We made it right and he still works here. But he knew it wasn't my intention to try to underpay him, and I knew he wasn't trying to do a cash grab. A good work environment and good rapport with those you interact with is very valuable. Maybe the new place has this too. But, you know what you've got now.

How many employees do you have?

 

[jsasker007]

I am an employer also and have employees that are always thinking the grass is greener. I am not their safety net to fall back on if they keep trying to find that golden ticket job---where you are grossly overpaid to do very little and is like winning the lottery. They go to the new job and then a couple weeks later they want to come back. I use to give them 3 strikes, now they get 1. That's why automation is the future---people are not reliable like the machines that can replace them. Initial investment is a hard pill to swallow but the machines don't let you down nearly as often and machines will pay for themselves over and over. Granted not every job can be done by machines but people are the driving force behind automation. People cost a lot and always want more. I do what I can to keep them happy but have to be able to make a profit myself or it quickly becomes a waste of time. jmho

 

[Bszweda]

The days of loyalty to a company is over because of no pensions, and companies outsourcing to 3rd world countries. I feel like jobs are kinda like girls friends at first its exciting and you are eager, but give it a few years you are bored. I'd recommend changing jobs ever 3 years to get significant pay raise until you get to a spot you want to be from a money perspective.(this all comes with extra stress/ risk) In my situation I wasn't actively looking for jobs, but being offered them from former co workers who left. So I felt the risk was less if I already knew people working at the company I was going to. If you live in a rural area with less opportunity, and liked where you lived It would make sense to be more cautious.

 

[Foggy47]

I've had over a dozen "career sales jobs" over time. It used to be....that if you were not promoted or change jobs every few years you were gonna be stuck for a long time. Not sure this is the case anymore.....and I am long retired now.....but it was that way "back when". I worked in industrial sales for companies that closed divisions or sent the factories off shore, went broke in the oil shortage days.... and a whole multiple of other situations. A few sales jobs I really liked and would have stayed at forever had I been paid enough. Others were somewhat of a stepping stone for me.....or a misfit.

Today, if you have good benefits and loyalty is a two-way street I think I would be inclined to have that conversation with your current employer to determine where your going in terms of pay and advancement in time to come.

My last sales job was for an aluminum mill. I sold mega millions $$ of mill products.....and I don't know any other sales rep that sold 1/2 of what I did. I had a good rapor with customers and the plant, and I was good at what I was doing.....and worked my fanny off to be successful over a span of ten years. Decided I was either going to be paid more than the other guys or do something else if they did not pony up. Had several conversations with management and finally a VP who told me I was maxed out at my position and if I would not relocate and move up in the organization (which I did not want to do) then that was the pay to expect.

Well....I did quit and started my own biz. Thought the worst thing I could do was to become an independent rep or work for another mill if my business failed. It did not......and it was the best thing I could have ever done. .....tho it dint always feel that way at times. The old aluminum company ended up replacing my old position with 3 people.....costing them more. lol. Today the sales guys that hung in there.....are being very well compensated.....and the aluminum company has a whole different management with a different philosophy.

Just remember to have a valid back-up plan. I had to use my backup plans more than I imagined over time.

If you like where your working and are satisfied in this work.....that would go a long way toward having that talk with your current employer. If you like a little adventure and the unknown.....that's another story. It was mostly the road I chose. Grin.

Today, I think most employers are faced with this or a similar conversation on a fairly frequent basis. If you are carrying your load....and providing well for them, then you should be compensated accordingly.....IMO. Not every company's management see's it that way tho....as said above.

 

[Bill]

Didn’t read all the replies. But when I was running a sales department and one of my good people got a better offer I matched it plus. When one of my so so people got a better offer I congratulated them.

Foggy would have never left me. My commission plan over salary was based on $’s in the door. You could make $1 mil per year, but if you did the company was making serious $ because of you.

When we sold the company the Fortune 500 MBA’s wanted to know where my stop loss on commission was. They were floored when I said a person could make a $ mil and I didn't care because we would have made exponentially more. They didn’t like that!

Always amazes me that a good education makes some people…..stupid.

 

[Foggy47]

Didn’t read all the replies. But when I was running a sale department and one of my good people got a better offer I matched it plus. When one of my so so people got a better offer I congratulated them.

Foggy would have never left me. My commission plan over salary was based on $’s in the door. You could make $1 mil per year, but if you did the company was making serious $ because of you.

When we sold the company the Fortune 500 MBA’s wanted to know where my stop loss on commission was. They were floored when I said a person could make a $ mil and I did t care because we would have made exponentially more. They didn’t like that!

Always amazes me that a good education makes some people…..stupid.

I have been a sales manager for a few multi plant firms over time and would have up to 5 salesmen working for me. Still....I was always "capped". All were manufacturing firms and all had salary / bonus caps for sales reps. Never liked that.....but the companies thought they had to keep everyone within a salary range - depending how they performed.

This happens when the "beanies" start running the company and common sense goes away. I was paid pretty well when working for the aluminum mill.....just not according to my performance....nor my expectations. I simply did not want to pull up stakes and move to other "promotions" in the company. My wife and I were happy to live near family where we grew up.

So...... the issue became: Why do more....when mediocre will do?? DUH! I used to tell young sales reps "I have sold more metal than you have seen". (OK...that is a bit braggadocios.....but may have been true?).

When I made up my mind to leave the aluminum gig....I even asked to be fired from that job (so I could collect a pension - I had 9.5 years in....but at that time you were not vested until ten years) but the VP of sales said he would not fire me.....so at that point I called him a chickenshit......and he simply turned away angry and red faced.....and still would not fire me. LOL. I thought the other sales reps were gonna crap their pants. They told me they still talk about that day at sales meetings. lol I suppose I burned a few bridges that day....which ain't too smart. But they say Cortez burned his ships....so his sailors would not look back to where they came. Anyway.....I ain't pretty when I'm mad. Grin.

After the Aluminum company was sold a few times......they had to vest folks for work after 5 years of service according to current law........so today I get a small pension each month.....and it keeps me in beer and a few steaks with mom each month. lol. At times it's fun to re-live some old chit. Good memories of the many lessons learned in life.

 

[chummer]

How do you know the new company gave you their best offer? If you are leaning towards staying I would counter the new company. Raise the offer to what you would definitely leave for. Then take that to your current boss and tell him you weren’t looking but it is in your families best interest that you take it or he matches it. I wouldn’t worry about doing it 2 years ago. A lot has changed in two years, inflation has already taken your last raise.

 

[Tree Spud]

Didn’t read all the replies. But when I was running a sale department and one of my good people got a better offer I matched it plus. When one of my so so people got a better offer I congratulated them.

Foggy would have never left me. My commission plan over salary was based on $’s in the door. You could make $1 mil per year, but if you did the company was making serious $ because of you.

When we sold the company the Fortune 500 MBA’s wanted to know where my stop loss on commission was. They were floored when I said a person could make a $ mil and I did t care because we would have made exponentially more. They didn’t like that!

Always amazes me that a good education makes some people…..stupid.

I do the same thing with our sales guys. They get paid "x" % on all sales up to their forecast, everything they sell over the commission rate doubles. If they drive sales results exceeding last years numbers, we both win.

Started my company because the last owner I worked for decided to cap my commissions on a no cap program. He said Sr Mgrs were getting concerned that I was making more than them and he saw no solution. I was responsible for over 50% of the company's revenue. I told him there was a solution, make me a partner. We parted ways a year later as he was a greedy azzhole. I started a company and became his direct competitor.