Off Topic - Career Advice

[westonwhitetail]

Just curious what others would do. I am a civil engineer and our field is swamped right now. Every company is looking for people. I am getting recruited to another firm by an old co-worker. His company would offer slightly better salary but due to better healthcare plans, it would increase my family's monthly take home by about $1000. This is about 20% increase in take home pay. This is also assuming I contribute similar total amounts to retirement (between myself and the companies benefits). It's a big increase that could mean some upgrades for my family and quicker savings for the next land purchase or other investments.

I can't help but be interested with the pay increase but there are great people and resources at my existing company, there is also a lot of potential movement up the ladder. It's hard to say what the environment may be at the other place, but from what I hear it isn't bad.

The last factor I am concerned about is the economy. I'd hate to be the new guy when/if things turn to shit. Both places do a lot of municipal work though, so it would likely be less affected than private work.

I'm just throwing this out there as there are a lot of successful people here with more career experience than myself. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestion's?

 

[River-X]

Oooo, thats a tricky one. First thing that rattles around in my head is “the grass isn‘t always greener” thing. The main thing with a decision like this, and I’m sure this has already crossed your mind is, there is really only one person (or family…household…) that can know if this is a good change to make or not.
There are probably numerous other factors that play into this that you can see or know about that aren’t reflected in your post. And thats ok, we shouldn’t know all your business and the inner workings of your household.
All that being said, I can see why you are asking for feedback, its a tough decision to make. At the end of the day, you know wether or not you want or need a change. More money can be good, but make sure to factor in all the little things that can make it a wash by the end of the day.
Being HAPPY at work is worth a lot more than money in my opinion. There is nothing truly greater than waking up and heading to work to do a job you really enjoy or to be working with people that make your day go by quickly.
You brought up some good points about “what if” and those need serious thought.
It may be wise to go with your gut/heart on this one.
Hope these words helped, even if just a little.
River

 

[Someday isle]

I’d at least consider an honest conversation with your current employer. Tell them how much you enjoy the culture and people where you work but that you’ve been presented with another opportunity. Maybe ask what the potential for near term advancement and salary increase would be in your current situation?

 

[Buckly]

I wouldn’t think of advising you or suggesting anything as each person is unique in circumstance. I will tell you what I have advised my kids. I’ve never seen a time in my life with so many job opportunities. It seems everyone is hiring and the chance to make a lot more money may not come again in your working career. If you’re going to change up now’s the time. I might get crucified by this but I consider money over being happy about the place you work. I speak from experience when I say I never really cared for the place I worked and rarely did they do me any favors however, the money was so good that it allowed me to do things and have things in life I might never have had in a job that I was just happy to be there. In the end you retire and don’t work there anymore and have lots of money to be happy about LOL. Good luck with your pending decisions.

 

[Brian662]

If I were in your shoes, I'd talk to your current employer and see if they can come up on your salary or benefits to at least take some of the unknowns out of the equation. If they refuse, I guess they made up your mind for you.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I am with Someday Isle, talk to your current empoyer, let them know the situation. In the end my happiness means alot more then money to me. Money can make life easier, or harder. But if you live outside of your means, it doesnt matter how much you make, it is never enough.
But going to a job that you look forward to going to every day seems to be a bigger benefit then money.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Before you jump ship give your current boss a chance to sweeten the pot. My wife left an employer a couple years ago and the new gig compensation was about a 30% increase. The employer she was leaving immediately offered to beat the comp from the new company when she put in her notice.

Every situation is different so only you know how best to address it with your current employer. In my opinion it doesn't hurt to at a minimum point out where compensation has gone in your industry over the past couple years and inquire about any planned compensation changes. You could likely be much more forward than that though. I would have appreciated a chance to sweeten the pot or know what is needed to retain some of my key subordinates in the past. It doesn't bother me to have conversations with people desiring more $ if they are in fact worth more money in the current market. The convo is tougher when people who aren't worth it are asking for more.

 

[PatinPA]

Just curious what others would do. I am a civil engineer and our field is swamped right now. Every company is looking for people. I am getting recruited to another firm by an old co-worker. His company would offer slightly better salary but due to better healthcare plans, it would increase my family's monthly take home by about $1000. This is about 20% increase in take home pay. This is also assuming I contribute similar total amounts to retirement (between myself and the companies benefits). It's a big increase that could mean some upgrades for my family and quicker savings for the next land purchase or other investments.

I can't help but be interested with the pay increase but there are great people and resources at my existing company, there is also a lot of potential movement up the ladder. It's hard to say what the environment may be at the other place, but from what I hear it isn't bad.

The last factor I am concerned about is the economy. I'd hate to be the new guy when/if things turn to shit. Both places do a lot of municipal work though, so it would likely be less affected than private work.

I'm just throwing this out there as there are a lot of successful people here with more career experience than myself. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestion's?

I'm a geotechnical engineer and in the same boat as you. We've lost 5 people (half our staff) over the last two years including my boss and counterpart and replaced them with 1 person with no experience. We're as busy as ever and they refuse to hire additional people. I'm somewhat actively looking but I'm being pretty selective. I don't want to jump into the same situation as I'm in now.

For you I almost always say take the money, you always have to work for what you're worth. The only way you're going to get raises like that in our industry is if you jump to another company. You could try to get your company to match the offer. That can be tricky to not end up with some burnt bridges though.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Competent employees have so much leverage right now. Utilize that upper hand one way or another. It’s not always going to be there.

 

[Mortenson]

If you end up taking the new job and it doesn't work out or the company bombs, there's no law that says your old company wouldn't hire you back. I've seen that happen with friends.

 

[westonwhitetail]

I’d at least consider an honest conversation with your current employer. Tell them how much you enjoy the culture and people where you work but that you’ve been presented with another opportunity. Maybe ask what the potential for near term advancement and salary increase would be in your current situation?

The tricky part with this one is I did this 2 years ago in the same situation (different company was recruiting me). I had a better offer presented to me out of the blue and I talked to my current employer and they gave me a raise to match. So I think at some point the current employer will say enough is enough. Not sure if how many times this is acceptable. Also I don't look loyal doing this too much. But what's a guy to do, I am more loyal to my family

 

[westonwhitetail]

I'm a geotechnical engineer and in the same boat as you. We've lost 5 people (half our staff) over the last two years including my boss and counterpart and replaced them with 1 person with no experience. We're as busy as ever and they refuse to hire additional people. I'm somewhat actively looking but I'm being pretty selective. I don't want to jump into the same situation as I'm in now.

For you I almost always say take the money, you always have to work for what you're worth. The only way you're going to get raises like that in our industry is if you jump to another company. You could try to get your company to match the offer. That can be tricky to not end up with some burnt bridges though.

Yeah I think this field is like any other right now. There's so much work and not enough good people to do it.

I want the money one way or the other like others suggested but how do you do that without burning bridges?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I'm also an engineer and our company is extremely busy and there is a lot of competition for good employees. I don't do as much direct engineering work as I used to and now I'm on the management side of the business. I've recently increased the wages of several employees and dropped the wage of one employee who wasn't meeting the job requirements. If your boss and the company you work for are smart, they would probably be happy to hear from you before you jump ship. If the cost of your future replacement is close to what you are asking for they should think about it and agree to pay you more. But that can only be done if your company is financially strong and can afford the higher rate of pay. And it will only be done if your company agrees that you will still bring in more than they pay you.

I don't think it is likely that your employer will fire you on the spot for asking for more money if you approach it the right way. If you approach it the wrong way and demand more money and irritate your boss, he may fire you even if he knows it will cost him more for your replacement.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Loyalty is a funny thing and it goes both ways. No reason to be loyal to a company but there IS reason to be loyal to the people within that company who make the decisions around your opportunities and compensation if they earn it.

Has your employer given you a raise since they matched the other offer? If so, do you think that raise is in line with what you would have gotten above your entry level salary at the other company? Things have changed a lot in 2 years!

If you have regular coaching sessions, compensation is a pretty easy thing to work into the convo.

 

[Buckly]

Yeah I think this field is like any other right now. There's so much work and not enough good people to do it.

I want the money one way or the other like others suggested but how do you do that without burning bridges?

About burning bridges. Something I’ve learned lately that some of us old timers can’t even fathom about a lot of the companies and how things work now days. The company my son works for actually has a policy, If you say youre thinking about leaving or you want to give notice that you’re leaving they will tell you you’re done right there on the spot. The policy is if you’re leaving you just don’t show up, no need to let us know. Lol. That’s what I’ve heard from several places. Companies just expect it. I know it’s not the case everywhere but the days of leaving you’re old employer on good terms and getting a good reference seem to be done. Things are just done differently now. Calling old employers for references is not even allowed now in some States or can’t be used against you. It’s hard to fathom. You know your employer. Be prepared with options immediately I’d say Just in case. I don’t think they would fire a good employee for just asking but err on the safe side. Companies hire people and go through the whole process and then never hear from the prospective employee again. It’s just a strange environment right now. In many cases the only way employers can get people is to literally steal them away. If I was younger I’d ride the wave. Lol.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I just read the part you wrote about having recently asked for more money just 2 years ago after I wrote my previous post. You know your boss and company better than anyone, but asking for more money after doing the same thing 2 years ago changes things a bit.

If you are a superstar and bring in way more than your new asking price your boss will still likely pay it. If your boss thinks that no amount of money will make you happy since he just gave you a big raise 2 years ago then he might just decide to move in a different direction. I would recommend being more sure about your plan B before talking with your boss about a second pay raise.

 

[PatinPA]

Yeah I think this field is like any other right now. There's so much work and not enough good people to do it.

I want the money one way or the other like others suggested but how do you do that without burning bridges?

I've rewritten this a few times because I'm trying to not sound too jaded, because I'm really sick and tired of the company I work for.

I think the best way to do it is to sit down with your boss and be up front about it. Now whether you want to say something before you get an offer or wait until after is debatable. Having an offer in hand definitely carries much more leverage. Experienced, good employees are hard to come by right now. I think your current company would want to know if they could keep you there and happy before you left.

All that being said. It's usually upper management that is the problem. I begged for all my good people at review time to get significant raises because I know that everyone is looking for people and ours are all underpaid. It of course fell on deaf ears. Me I'm past being cordial now. I threaten my "temporary" boss about weekly now haha. I've been through 2 mass defections and I tell him if everyone starts quitting again I guarantee you that I will not be the last one on the sinking ship.

 

[PatinPA]

The tricky part with this one is I did this 2 years ago in the same situation (different company was recruiting me). I had a better offer presented to me out of the blue and I talked to my current employer and they gave me a raise to match. So I think at some point the current employer will say enough is enough. Not sure if how many times this is acceptable. Also I don't look loyal doing this too much. But what's a guy to do, I am more loyal to my family

Oh I didn't see this. Doing this twice in that time is tough. That changes my thoughts. Not sure of the relationship you have with your boss but this would probably irk the upper management. I would say it's either stay and hopefully they remember that during review time or leave. If you do leave, put in your two weeks, work hard during those two weeks. Thank people for your time there. Leave on good terms. We've had people leave and then decide they didn't like the other company and come back.

 

[yoderjac]

Just curious what others would do. I am a civil engineer and our field is swamped right now. Every company is looking for people. I am getting recruited to another firm by an old co-worker. His company would offer slightly better salary but due to better healthcare plans, it would increase my family's monthly take home by about $1000. This is about 20% increase in take home pay. This is also assuming I contribute similar total amounts to retirement (between myself and the companies benefits). It's a big increase that could mean some upgrades for my family and quicker savings for the next land purchase or other investments.

I can't help but be interested with the pay increase but there are great people and resources at my existing company, there is also a lot of potential movement up the ladder. It's hard to say what the environment may be at the other place, but from what I hear it isn't bad.

The last factor I am concerned about is the economy. I'd hate to be the new guy when/if things turn to shit. Both places do a lot of municipal work though, so it would likely be less affected than private work.

I'm just throwing this out there as there are a lot of successful people here with more career experience than myself. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestion's?

My first thought is to have an honest open conversation with your boss. I let him know you've received another offer and are seriously considering it but really like the current company and the folks there and would prefer to stay but have an obligation to do what is best for your family. I'd leave it at that and see what kind of response you get. They may make you a better offer financially or accelerate your advancement. If not, you head to the next company.

Keep in mind that if you have that conversation, you should be ready to leave if necessary.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[pilotpip]

The tricky part with this one is I did this 2 years ago in the same situation (different company was recruiting me). I had a better offer presented to me out of the blue and I talked to my current employer and they gave me a raise to match. So I think at some point the current employer will say enough is enough. Not sure if how many times this is acceptable. Also I don't look loyal doing this too much. But what's a guy to do, I am more loyal to my family

2 years is a long time. It's a seller's market. If your current employer isn't willing to do what is needed to retain you, go with the company that wants you. The flip side of your economy concern is that your current employer could keep the junior, lower experienced people and kick you to the curb because they cost less on the balance sheet.

6 months ago I was in the same boat, only the salary difference was much more significant. More so after benefits are considered. When I gave notice, they asked how much it would take. I gave them the number, and got a hand shake and a "good luck". When word got out how much myself and my coworker are now making, all of the area operators of similar equipment brought their pay up in an attempt to stem attrition. The result: I got a significant raise within 6 months of employment.

Loyalty to an employer is only good up to a point. I don't work to make them happy, I work to provide for my family, and keep ME happy. If that irks them, so be it. Fortunately for me, I landed somewhere that actually gives a damn about their employees, treats them like family, and does what it takes to keep them here.