Novice Question: My soil sample/Old Gasline Plot

[GloryDaysDesign]

Latest idea for a plot. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. Soil was really hard to dig. This open area seems to really be holding water this year. I tried some lime/fert and GRO Inner Sanctum mix (Oats & Clover) last year on this spot but I did not prep soil well enough (first try ever). I may try Inner Sanctum again this year - it's a great mix. Thinking I really need to till this up and work the soil. Do I have a chance?

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[4wanderingeyes]

I would try winter rye or buckwheat. But it looks a little shady for buck wheat.


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[GloryDaysDesign]

I was really surprised of the look of my soil... dark top soil and gray underneath, with some ?shale? as shown in the two pictures above... this is all new to me - so I am not sure what to think of it. I am trying to ask the land owner if I can knock some trees down on the East side, but that probably will not come to fruition. We have received a lot of rain in the east as well. I like the spot because it is already clear. I sprayed last year, and got to bare ground almost throughout the plot. I will spray again this year. I am fairly certain that the decaying leaves from hundreds of years has this soil super acidic. I could hardly dig. Do you guys think I should take the rototiller to this extensively?

 

[GloryDaysDesign]

Also a lot of these growing on edges

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[Someday isle]

Those look like what we call May Apple around here. The woods are full of them where there's an opening with lots of moisture. The old timers always said that where they grow you'll find mushrooms too. I've never actually found that to be true, but I'm not a very good mushroom hunter either.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I think you'll end up with a good plot if you get more sunlight to the ground. If possible, I'd recommend cutting down the trees leaning over the plot to start and see how it goes. An oat/clover plot usually works pretty well for partially shaded plots like you have and if you can increase the amount of sun you will have more options. Good luck.

 

[FarmerDan]

Do you have a chance? I guess with enough time and money anything is possible. Do you have enough of both? I suspect drainage is always going to be a problem. May apples like wet. The soil looks wet and not well drained as it isn't very deep. What soil is there probably has a pH of between 4 and 5 and my guess is 4.2. I don't think you can ever get ahead of that. I see shale. I see Pennsylvania. And really, if the pictures are representative of the size of the plot, I'd think you might be better spending your time and money somewhere else.

Does anybody plant vetch? My recollection is the stuff grows just about anywhere without much consideration of soil suitability.

 

[yoderjac]

Do you have a chance? I guess with enough time and money anything is possible. Do you have enough of both? I suspect drainage is always going to be a problem. May apples like wet. The soil looks wet and not well drained as it isn't very deep. What soil is there probably has a pH of between 4 and 5 and my guess is 4.2. I don't think you can ever get ahead of that. I see shale. I see Pennsylvania. And really, if the pictures are representative of the size of the plot, I'd think you might be better spending your time and money somewhere else.

Does anybody plant vetch? My recollection is the stuff grows just about anywhere without much consideration of soil suitability.

When I lived in PA, they planted crown vetch along all the highway banks.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Vetch does well in spring in east texas

I have to fight them off tree cages as they use the frame work for a trellis

bill

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I have a plot similar to this location that I just opened up in the woods myself. It was a natural opening at one point but over the past 30 years the box elder and elm have filled in. It was also an old dump site at one time for a local turkey processing plant. Whatever it was that they were dumping there has decomposed well over the years. I tilled it up last fall but didnt go as deep as I would have liked because of an approaching storm and I wanted to get seed in the ground. I planted it with Oats, Rye, and Field Peas. It grew patchy but the deer were in the plot often. (not sure if that was from the new food or because of the opening I created?) I am actually in the process of splitting up the last of the trees that I cut down now and will hopefully be able to till and seed by mid May. I will be tilling this with a walk behind unit as deep as it will go this spring just to try to mix in the top layer with the soil underneath and from there on out it will be a no till plot. (The plot is full of tree stumps that I will not be removing)

Long story short I'm going to plant this plot for four or five years. If I cant get it to grow well because of the "soil" it will turn into a tree plot. I'm guessing I'm just going to waste four or five years and do that anyway but you won't know until you try.

 

[MojoRisin]

Please understand that I am a novice. What I am describing is what I did last year in my 1st plot ever and it is similar to your situation.

I had an area in the woods I cleared a few trees from. The area is wet (cedar swamp) in the spring. My son and I raked a life time of leaves from there. I spread 400#s of lime and 150#s of 19/19/19 taking no soil sample. I rented a rear tiller and tilled the area. I planted GRO Soil Builder mix and PRAYED. I was shocked at the results. I broadcast in some brassicas and winter rye in the fall and had deer in there all winter. I was lucky. This year, I have opened it up more.

 

[yoderjac]

Is that primarily ryegrass in that mix?

 

[GloryDaysDesign]

Thanks for all the replies so far! It's such good reading and learning. I love the quote, "I see Pennsylvania"... So True!

MojoRisin, you just guessed on the 400lbs of Lime and 150lbs of fertilizer?

 

[Someday isle]

If he's planting the Grandpa Ray outdoors soil builder mix it's supposed to be this -

This blend is intended to be planted either spring or fall to fixate nitrogen, add organic matter and weed suppression. It also gives deer a highly palatable forage source. An ideal mix to be used for first time food plotters or for soil that needs improvement.

Seeding rate 50 lbs. per acre

Planting Date:
April 15-June 30
Aug-Sept 15

Planting Depth: 1/4- 1/2”

Seeding Rate: 50 lbs. per acre

Maturity: 60 days

20% Triticale
20% Oats
20% Buckwheat
20% Peas
10% Crimson Clover
10% Berseem Clover

It sure likes likes it's a solid mix. I don't know what the cost is but for a premix it looks to be pretty good. I really liked the LC cereal grain mix last year and can see the benefits as it's designed. I will continue to use that to build my soils but if one didn't have access to a local grain elevator for seed supply the GRO mix above might be worth a try.

 

[MojoRisin]

You are correct about the mix. There is no ryegrass in there. It did dang well considering I took a flier on the amendments (yes, I guessed on the lime and 19/19/19. I laid more in August too) and the plot did not get a ton of sun. It is more open now. I am planting GRO's Soil Builder in there again this spring (late May).

I have a new GRO blend called Fast Gro that will be mixed in too - Sunn Hemp (50%), Sorghum (25%), Buckwheat (25%).

For the Soil Builder, I paid $33 for 25#s last spring and bought another 25#s for the same price this spring. I'm a GRO member and get a 10% discount.

I went from zero to 4 plots in one year - my inaugural year. My largest plot was the LC mix and it did well. It is a fall plot only. I am planting 2 of the plots this spring and like the Soil Builder mix for the spring. Brassicas do get broadcast in there in August as is Winter Rye.

 

[GloryDaysDesign]

Soil Builder is $45 for 25lbs on the site, currently. I am a GRO member too, I designed their latest Green Shovel logo and also his Seminar/Show Banners!!

 

[MojoRisin]

Soil Builder is $45 for 25lbs on the site, currently. I am a GRO member too, I designed their latest Green Shovel logo and also his Seminar/Show Banners!!

Small world! I don't believe that is the member's price. If you call John, you get a better deal I believe.

 

[MojoRisin]

Just wanted to show that the deer were in there in the fall too.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm certainly no farmer, but I've learned the value of lime for soils in the Northeast states. With as many years of leaves dropping in that opening, you can't go wrong with more lime. We also get very acidic rain here ( I know - I used to test it regularly with an electronic meter supplied by then-D.E.R. ).

Alsike clover is a good one to plant in less-than-ideal soils. It tolerates more acidic soils than other clovers, so it's a good addition to a plot mix. We've used it at camp before our pH was in good shape. Alsike and medium red clover mix was what we used and it did pretty well even with shady areas.

The mix mentioned above sounds like a good one. I like oats, clover and buckwheat for soil building. Those seeds have worked well for us.