Not impressed.

I think a high demand for a variety and a low production of the variety is what lies behind the small trees. If they don't all sell the first year they are sold the next year, larger. If they still don't sell they are 3-year-olds the next year and probalby sold in 3-gallon pots. When I order, I find that hard-to-find varieties go fast and are small. Nurseries that sell out every year of most or all of their stock typically sell smaller trees. Cummins nursery is liked that. They sell out every year and their trees are typically smaller than trees from Starks or Millers (now Starks), or Grandpa's. You can't tell the nursery to "let it grow another year for me, then ship it". Someone else would buy it. I think (don't KNOW) that a lot of trees sold to the home orchardist are extra trees mass-grafted for commercial orchards that didn't sell and are then bought by the nurseries selling to the public. We home orchardists get the trees left over, sometimes when they are a year or two older.

There are few folks I respect more than Prof. Kent, but my experience with Cummins is much different. The trees I have received from Cummins cannot come close to what some folks are seeing from SLN. I have trees in my orchard from Starks, Miller, and Cummins. I have no complaints with any of them, but the Cummins trees have grown the best of all three. This year I have potted three trees for fall transplant, all from Cummins. From left to right: Liberty/P.18 is roughly 4 ft., Goldrush/P.18 has to be almost 8’, and Sundance/B.118 is roughly 5’. I have never been disappointed with the size of a tree from Cummins. I can’t speak to SLN since I have no experience with them.
 

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Most of the trees I have are from Cummins & Turkey Creek. All of which have been nice trees. The only time I was disappointed was when I ordered a Chestnut Crab on B118 but they substituted it with a Chestnut Crab on P18 rootstock without telling me. I am however amazed with the growth it had put on. The tree was planted in 2015 and is now close to 20ft tall. This is a 10ft piece of conduit stood up along side the tree for reference (not driven in the ground) the pictures were taken last Oct.20191006_133834.jpg20191006_132732.jpg
 
I've bought plenty from Cummins. I've only had a few i didn't like but i have gotten them. One was a sour cherry that was a 32" tall whip with 1 tiny side root. Paid top price for a grade 1/ feathered. Dead by July. Maybe it was the nicest one so that got top grade. But most trees were nicer than what comes out of my backyard nursery.

As for SLN, sounds like the new guy is running things how he wants. What the previous folks did or other nurseries do doesn't matter to him. If it matters to you, you have the knowledge.
 
In 2012 I planted trees from Burnt Ridge that were no bigger than a pencil and no longer than 18”. 4 years later (and still today) they are my biggest trees. Smaller trees will have less transplant shock and will be no different after a few years. Roots are more important than tree size, at planting, imo. I planted my SLN trees this past weekend. They were similar to the OP. The roots were good, not great, imo. The size of the trees ranged from 15” to 4’. More concerned with the lack of roots than size of the trees. They were packed great. Second time I’ve ordered from SLN (last in 2016). Small trees then too. Those trees are looking good today.
 
I don't buy the benefit of not using fert. imheo, a tree will " search for nutrients if it can't "find" them, creating a more open root system, conversely, trees with ample fert will grow a denser root system as all it needs are met close. Te me, getting a sizeable tree right off the bat is important, waiting 3 years for it to pop out of a tree tube is ridiculous. when for the money, other trees come in taller than the tube. There is a great landscape nursery out in Bucks county PA that waters with water from the treatment plant, those trees grow like wildfire and time to a sell able product is cut nealy in half. A whole lot easier to prune for structure when the tree has something to prune.
 
I haven't had a problem with Cummins trees at all. I've only ordered apples and crab apples from them, and all are either on MM-111, B-118, or P-18 roots. If you want feathered, good caliper fruit trees, give Adams County Nursery a try. ACN is located in south-central Pa. and is one of about 18 or 20 highly recommended fruit tree nurseries in the U.S. by Penn State. They supply commercial orchards, as well as individuals. I've bought trees from ACN that were 3/4" to 1" caliper when they shipped.

The one Sundance apple tree I got from Cummins this spring was just delivered the other day. It's about 5 ft. tall and has several limbs. Great looking tree.
 
My first trees were from ACN probably 20-25 years ago. They were by far the nicest trees I have ever bought. This was in the beginning of the habitat management craze and when I called they recommended Liberty, Enterprise, Goldrush and Freedom for what I was doing. The trees were impressive, grew great and they are the backbone on my tree plots now. I would have never strayed if they had a bigger selection of stuff for the habitat orchard, specifically crabs. If you want something that the commercial orchards are growing ACN is a great nursery.

I live just down the road from Cummins and have bought a bunch of trees from them. They grade their trees and the price has always reflected what I got from them. Their trees have always done well and they strike me as good people. I have attended their grafting and tree pruning classes also, good way to spend an afternoon in late winter and I never fail to learn at least something. I have been to both classes at least twice over the last few years.

As far as SLN, I am all for supporting a small nursery like that. I am not impressed with the "It is what it is" attitude, which is basically what I got when he screwed up my first order last year and I ended up with no trees. I won't bother calling about this years pathetic trees after that experience. I agree with him at this point, "It is what it is". You can get away with that when you are the only game in town. When you aren't you don't usually last. Blue Hill is going to take a lot of the business he had with their better trees on similar rootstock at a cheaper price and the difference in customer service between the two. At least with the habitat market. If I wanted trees that I could only get at SLN I would probably plug my nose and buy them, if I have another option I will go elsewhere every time based on my two experiences.
 
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Man I wish I was bemoaning small trees from SLN, however he cancelled my order last week. I get it when “that’s what happens in farming” as he said, but to not let someone know until about a week before they were planning on planting after explaining the damage was from December, was a bit of a gut punch. I guess I would rather be 1 year behind than a few as it sound like these trees are. Overall was disappointed in the experience with SLN but he sells out every year so I don’t think he will miss me too much.

On the other hand, Ryan at Blue Hill was extremely helpful and his trees looked great from what I can tell as a freshman pear planter. I know where my order will start next year that much is sure.
 
Man I wish I was bemoaning small trees from SLN, however he cancelled my order last week. I get it when “that’s what happens in farming” as he said, but to not let someone know until about a week before they were planning on planting after explaining the damage was from December, was a bit of a gut punch. I guess I would rather be 1 year behind than a few as it sound like these trees are. Overall was disappointed in the experience with SLN but he sells out every year so I don’t think he will miss me too much.

On the other hand, Ryan at Blue Hill was extremely helpful and his trees looked great from what I can tell as a freshman pear planter. I know where my order will start next year that much is sure.
That's a bum deal. Seems to me he shoulda let someone know. I'd have a problem with that over the size of the trees.
 
That's a bum deal. Seems to me he shoulda let someone know. I'd have a problem with that over the size of the trees.

X2. Planting time is like Christmas time. I love making my wish list months to a year in advance. Buying my trees. Getting butterflies on tree delivery Eve. Then ripping open the box to see what the trees look like. Then running out in the cold the 1st chance I get to play with my shovel and plant my trees.

Finding out my tree order/ Christmas was cancled after months of anticipation on planters eve is the biggest kick in the pants a habitat guy could receive. But as Santa says.... It is what it is!!!
Sorry for making a joke of it, I do feel your pain
 
I guess it was probably said best earlier. I"m in the boat where I want trees to put out mast for wildlife. I don't need weird/rare strains of trees at this point. So if that's the case, i'm probably best taking my business elsewhere and finding something that'll put apples on the ground sooner. SLN seems like a good place to find weird trees. But I don't need anything cute right now. Lesson learned.
 
Man I wish I was bemoaning small trees from SLN, however he cancelled my order last week. I get it when “that’s what happens in farming” as he said, but to not let someone know until about a week before they were planning on planting after explaining the damage was from December, was a bit of a gut punch. I guess I would rather be 1 year behind than a few as it sound like these trees are. Overall was disappointed in the experience with SLN but he sells out every year so I don’t think he will miss me too much.

On the other hand, Ryan at Blue Hill was extremely helpful and his trees looked great from what I can tell as a freshman pear planter. I know where my order will start next year that much is sure.

Boaz, WI?
 
Man I wish I was bemoaning small trees from SLN, however he cancelled my order last week. I get it when “that’s what happens in farming” as he said, but to not let someone know until about a week before they were planning on planting after explaining the damage was from December, was a bit of a gut punch. I guess I would rather be 1 year behind than a few as it sound like these trees are. Overall was disappointed in the experience with SLN but he sells out every year so I don’t think he will miss me too much.

On the other hand, Ryan at Blue Hill was extremely helpful and his trees looked great from what I can tell as a freshman pear planter. I know where my order will start next year that much is sure.

This was the exact thing that happened to me in 2018. I was one of the first orders when they started taking orders in December. I was never notified I wasn't getting trees. By the end of April I emailed looking for my order after not getting anyone on the phone. I was told he didn't have trees to fill my order when I finally got a reply to my email. Obviously I wasn't able to get trees anywhere by April 25 when I found out I wasn't getting ANY of the 8 trees I ordered. I really wanted the Kerr and I didn't find any until this year. This was my post here on April 25, 2018 about that experience:

Well I emailed SLN about my order which was placed on 12/19/17 and I was advised that they didn't have the trees. 4 Kerr, 2 All Winter Hangover and 2 Viola crabs. I have been given the option of waiting until next year or getting a refund. I am not very happy and will be getting a refund, they have sat on my $300 long enough. These were the first trees I ordered, every other nursery has shipped what I ordered well after this order and they are in the ground. Every tree on the website was listed in stock when I ordered and it was several weeks after until any of the trees were listed as out of stock so I have my own opinion of what has happened here. This was my first order with SLN and will be my last. I have never had an issue with Cummins, ACN, Vintage Virginia Apples or Fedco and will do my business there in the future. My Fedco trees were small compared to what I am used to but at least I got them. Not sure why it took until almost May and me sending an email today to get this news. Not the first time someone who is great at what they do not being able to handle the business end of things, this looks like the case here. It is what it is and anyone reading this can take the information for what it's worth. I hope SLN gets it figured out, I honestly do.



I got a chuckle out of my "it is what it is" comment at the end of my post. Weird. I only searched for this after seeing the experience Boaz posted and knowing it was exactly what happened to me. I am done posting about my experiences. They are here for reference for anyone that is interested in the future.
 
Sure as the sun shines, Town of Dayton technically.

Nice. Most of Richland County seems like it has some good hunting. We’re up in northern Sauk near La Valle.
 
If Blue Hill has trees on Antonovka roots, I'll buy from them. He has some of Sandbur's crabs on Ant. or Dolgo roots, and he's right on my way to camp. I can pick up my trees on the way - no shipping costs.
 
Ok well for those neutrals out there lurking, I’ll offer an alternative opinion: I’ve had good experience with SLN. Good packaging, trees were “okay” sized, not as good as TC, but more than acceptable. When one didn’t wake up that spring, a replacement was there the next spring, no questions asked.

Also guys, ya cant compare the fibrous root system of say an MM111 to the Antonovka. The latter is supposed to be more like a carrot, says so right in the planting guide he sends with the trees.

Will I buy from him again? Yes. At some point I’d like a Winter Wildlife crab, and I’ll take whatever puny sapling he can get me as those things supposedly grow like crazy. Would I buy a Liberty or Enterprise from him that literally EVERYBODY grafts (and sells cheaper)? Of course not.

Also, a lot of this can be a crapshoot. I ordered 6 pears from TWG a couple years ago, 3 varieties. 3 are doing awesome, 3 are stubby runts, but the variety didn’t make a difference. (I have one gallaway that is 4’ tall and one that is 9’). These will only be their 3rd leaf, and while we’re all concerned with getting the best product we can for the money, we may not even know how good/poor it is until several years down the road.

So...relax

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ok well for those neutrals out there lurking, I’ll offer an alternative opinion: I’ve had good experience with SLN. Good packaging, trees were “okay” sized, not as good as TC, but more than acceptable. When one didn’t wake up that spring, a replacement was there the next spring, no questions asked.

Also guys, ya cant compare the fibrous root system of say an MM111 to the Antonovka. The latter is supposed to be more like a carrot, says so right in the planting guide he sends with the trees.

Will I buy from him again? Yes. At some point I’d like a Winter Wildlife crab, and I’ll take whatever puny sapling he can get me as those things supposedly grow like crazy. Would I buy a Liberty or Enterprise from him that literally EVERYBODY grafts (and sells cheaper)? Of course not.

Also, a lot of this can be a crapshoot. I ordered 6 pears from TWG a couple years ago, 3 varieties. 3 are doing awesome, 3 are stubby runts, but the variety didn’t make a difference. (I have one gallaway that is 4’ tall and one that is 9’). These will only be their 3rd leaf, and while we’re all concerned with getting the best product we can for the money, we may not even know how good/poor it is until several years down the road.

So...relax

d26341912add41e2e40124b3f143a446.gif



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rationally, you're probably right.

Irrationally, I don't wanna relax, I want apples!!!
 
I haven't had a problem with Cummins trees at all. I've only ordered apples and crab apples from them, and all are either on MM-111, B-118, or P-18 roots. If you want feathered, good caliper fruit trees, give Adams County Nursery a try. ACN is located in south-central Pa. and is one of about 18 or 20 highly recommended fruit tree nurseries in the U.S. by Penn State. They supply commercial orchards, as well as individuals. I've bought trees from ACN that were 3/4" to 1" caliper when they shipped.

The one Sundance apple tree I got from Cummins this spring was just delivered the other day. It's about 5 ft. tall and has several limbs. Great looking tree.

I have had nothing but good experiences with Cummins also. I’ve ordered apple and pear trees from them five or six times and all have grown great, haven’t lost any. All on M111, P18, B118 and I purchase all my rootstock for grafting from them M111 and OHx97. They run a top notch A+ business.
 
I think it is good for us all to share our experiences with each other here on HT but Unfortunately the thing we say here are seen by a lot of lurkers who wish to gain knowledge and the things we say could affect his business. We've all had some good and some not so perfect experiences with SLN but overall nothing terrible. Still a good nursery.

I think the take away from this therad should be, if you want large trees that are going to start producing a few apples in a few years then you should buy trees from another nursery.

With that being said the trees that you order from SLN are going to be good trees and are probably going to still be around long after you, me and any colonal rootstock
 
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