New Food Plotter Help (poor soil)

[P0werUser]

Help, I'm on property that used to be a timber farm (20+ year ago) in East Texas Piney woods and need some advice. I have 3 plots that I would like to establish (1 ac, 0.5 ac, 0.5 ac) but would eventually expand the plots to 2+ ac for all year food supply. The recommendations I got back from the lab, show that I have a lot of work to do in order to raise pH and other nutrients. The thing I'm curious about, is when can I start planting, I'm going to attempt to adjust the pH first, then take another sample again in spring, should I go ahead and apply any fertilizer now or wait until planting time? I've been doing some research on DeerGro PlotStart and was wondering if anyone has attempted to use it to raise pH? Getting ag lime out to these remote conditions will be a very big pain, so it'll have to be tractor bucket loads.

I know for sure I want to plant white/red Clover (all year), chicory (all year), oats (fall), peas (summer), but it may take some time to get the soil in best conditions. I know it's going to take years in order for these plantings to bring soil conditions up to optimal, but I want start now for my son's (1 yo) future hunts (looking at 6 yo for 1st hunt).


Represents 0.5 Acre in a very sunny east to west opening between lots of Pines, some shade due to "pine islands" in the middle of clearing.




Represents 0.5 Acre in Oak Grove with nice sunny/shady openings




Represents 1.0 Acre in bigger clearing with large "Pine islands"

 

[MRBB]

my 2 cents is, LIME ASAP< and then disc/mix that lime into the soil ASAP
the better you mix it the better faster it will start to work
from there you can plant things, just don't expect a great take on most things as lime takes TIME to work
Liquid lime will get PH down faster, but doesn't seem to me to last as long
But if you can spray some on top of bulk spreading pulverized lime, it will get you a better take
as for fertilizer, I never add till the time I am seeding/planting
NO point in wasting it!

I also, will suggest this, based on ANY soil test I get, if it calls for 1 ton of lime per acre I add a good 1.5 tons, as lime comes in grades and MOST times your NOT getting the best lime, so going a little over is better than going a little under on it, its cheaper to do at once and hope for the best on things settling down , and getting a better seed take!
MY 2 cents here?
best of luck!

 

[bbcoach]

Ryan, First thing Welcome to HT! Second don't get discouraged, you started off on the right foot, A SOIL TEST! Most people would have prepared their plots, thrown down a couple 100 lbs of lime, a little fertilizer and some seed and wondered WHY their plots failed. Third thing, check out my avatar PIC. We plant in pines all the time (very low PH's). The key to good plots is getting your PH up to around 6.5 and you will be able to grow exactly what you have stated you wanted to. My suggestion is get your lime down now, it will take about 6 months to neutralize the soil. Your samples state 1-1.5 tons per acre, ours normally take 2 to 3 tons per acre, in planted pines with 4.5-4.7 PH. It's best to incorporate the lime but putting it on the surface and letting it work is ok as well. Once you get your PH up to around 6.5, then add the recommended fertilizer for the specific plants you plan on planting, at planting. Decide what you want to plant where and only fertilize for that particular planting in that plot. For further encouragement, the avatar PIC was limed in March 2015, planted in September 2015, PIC taken in October 2015 and the Durana clover PIC below was taken in May 2016. Be patient, get your lime down now and you'll have something special next fall. Good Luck!

 

[scott44]

When I start my clover plots I plant them in the fall with oats and rye, spring time the rye will take off but you can mow it or let it die off naturally and have a good clover plot, like the others said get your amendments on and plant, good luck!

 

[P0werUser]

Thanks everyone, after all the research I've done this last year I've learned the pH is key for the plants to absorb in the nutrients, so that's my first goal and 6.0-6.5 pH is definitely what I'm looking to achieve.
@bbcoach that's a very encouraging site to see, I knew it was possible to grow in pines, but was thinking it was going to take years to build the soil up.

 

[MojoRisin]

I don't want to hijack the thread but it raises a question to me, another food plot newbie. If the soil is supposed to hold nutrients like the P and K in the fertilizer, why don't people spread fertilizer in advance of planting to amend the soil? Is the fertilizer actually just a temporary "fix" the seeds use when growing versus a soil amendment that would improve future plantings?

 

[wiscwhip]

Because depending on the soil type and the organic matter content of that soil, rain will leach those nutrients down to below the "root zone" before they can be taken up by plants, and the root systems of many plants are shallow, which puts it beyond the useful depth. This is why plants with large, deep root systems, like daikon/forage radishes and rye, will help to "scavenge" those nutrients from deep in the soil profile and pull them to the surface within the plant. If you harvest those plants, you take those nutrients off of the plot, if you let them rot or till/disc them under, and they turn into soil organic matter, those nutrients will break down at the soil surface and be availible for later crops. It is a long process, but nutrient recycling will be your friend as you move forward in your plotting endevours.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

First of all, I hate those soil tests that don't show everything.

There is ground all over this country being farmed with PH soil under 5, so don't sweat it. You can plant today, and amend the soil as you go! But you may try and amend your soil your whole life, and go broke doing it. Best thing you can do on poor soil is start building Organic Matter (not listed). Poor soil usually means low OM. Get some manure if available and spread ASAP, Spread your lime ASAP. If no manure is available, start with a soil building green manure program. Winter Rye, Crimson Clover, Sunn Hemp, Berseem Clover, Buckwheat, triticale, Tillage Radish, Pearl Millet, Balsana Clover......many things are out there for building soil! And the deer will eat them very well! Good Luck!

 

[Fall's Legend]

Some great advice here, thanks!

 

[tooln]

Whip & Mo know their stuff & have given some you some very good information. I've seen many soil test that called for way more lime than what you're does. WR & BW are my personal favorites. Good luck and welcome.

 

[P0werUser]

So time has yet to allow me an opportunity to get out and plant at the lease, but temps are just now dropping here in East Texas averaging 85-90 midday, 60's @ night. I'm hoping to take a day off in the week amd just get out there and work it! After sending the results to the county ext, they suggested to go ahead lime and plant the clover & chicory as they are fall planting perennials, also put down some Elbon rye. I know the first few seasons won't be great but looking forward to providing any "winter" food & attraction for the deer.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

One thing is for sure, nothing will grow sitting in the bag. Get after it! And take some pictures!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I would lime now, and plant winter rye in the food plot the first couple years. I would re apply lime next year as well then retest the soil after 2 years, that should give the spoil time to improve, and grow your clover you want. But I am not nearly as smart as some of these others.

 

[JT's Outdoors]

Pelletized lime is easier to get out to remote areas, requires less material, and is faster acting than ag lime. Costs more, but may be worth it rather than bucketing lime for days. Ge ahead and plant now. John from Grandpa Ray Outdoors can be a great source of advice and information. He has several mixes that you can plant now and will help ammend the soil to get you ready for planting now. I also frequently used rye grass in the fall because it has the added benefit of reducing weeds in your plot next spring due to it's allelopathic nature.

 

[rusty1034]

Pelletized lime is easier to get out to remote areas, requires less material, and is faster acting than ag lime. Costs more, but may be worth it rather than bucketing lime for days. Ge ahead and plant now. John from Grandpa Ray Outdoors can be a great source of advice and information. He has several mixes that you can plant now and will help ammend the soil to get you ready for planting now. I also frequently used rye grass in the fall because it has the added benefit of reducing weeds in your plot next spring due to it's allelopathic nature.

Everything I've read says to avoid using "rye grass" but instead use "rye grain". There is a big difference.

Rye grain does all you mentioned, as well as adding organic matter to the soil when it's terminated. It's a staple in my food plot rotations.

Rusty



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[4wanderingeyes]

I bought some seed from GRO and there was Rye grass in it, I spent 2 years trying to contain and kill it off. I Am still working one one patch about 100 feet long. John told me it was high sugar rye grass, and it didn't have the same problems as plain rye grass, I beg to differ. Do not plant anything with rye grass in it!


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[JT's Outdoors]

Everything I've read says to avoid using "rye grass" but instead use "rye grain". There is a big difference.

Rye grain does all you mentioned, as well as adding organic matter to the soil when it's terminated. It's a staple in my food plot rotations.

Rusty



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Rusty-

Thanks for catching my mistake. I mis-spoke.