Neighbor wants to access to haul out timber

[LuckyIL]

Any advice on drawing up an agreement with the forester who will be contracting work out to cut timber on neighbors property? I'd like them to restore it to how it looked originally and was contemplating some other things.

Was hoping people have encountered this before and I would be able to get some advice on unforeseen issues I hadn't anticipated.

Regards,
Matt

 

[j-bird]

Your on the right path with seeking a legal agreement.

Are they skidding the logs thru your place or are they actually loading and running the semi in and out?

Main issues your going to face will be erosion, soil compaction and potentially any accidental damage. Depending on the terrain and the like they may or may not be able to do much. Soil compaction is hard on your woods, but can be addressed with a subsoiler IF they are using a open area or field edge.....in the woods your screwed. Soil erosion is one of those things that once it starts it only gets worse.....they need to show you a plan for any culverts, gravel and grading and the like and their "follow-up plan" to avoid erosion issues. They are going to skin up some trees - those trees may die if the damage is bad enough. All I can tell you is make it worth the headache on your part, get everything in writing (they should provide you with their insurance paperwork and the like as well) AND get paid FIRST.....no money.....no trucks! I got paid for my standing timber well in advance of them cutting.....if they can't pay you first they got cash flow issues and that should be a big red flag! also list the dates they can access- don;t leave it undefined, cause you know when they will show up.....the heart of deer season.....if you don't. Take lots of pictures or video BEFORE they show up to document the way things where before they start......it may become very important should things get ugly later.

These are just some things I would be concerned about if it was me. Hope all goes well for you.

 

[chummer]

I had to pay my neighbor $2500 just to use a landing space. We had a contract that said everything had to be put back in the same or better condition. If they just need a trail I would coordinat where the trail is going and if possible make it beneficial to use as stand access. Basically, have them put a trail where you wish you had one.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Chummer- J-bird has very good points. I would also recommend you take pix or video of the areas affected by the logging for future reference. Having a well-defined contract doesn't make you a pr--k, it just keeps everything on the table and in the open.

I would advise that you have language in the contract to have any roads, skid-trails, landings seeded with a suitable mix to minimize erosion and secure those pathways for the future. Otherwise a good hard rain will turn them into washed-out gullies. Drain culverts are crucial to keeping the trails / roads in good shape.

Try to locate the access road(s) so that if either of you want to log in the future, the future impact to either property will be minimal. Less disturbance down the road once you establish plots / orchards will be to your advantage.

 

[buckdeer1]

make sure you also either get paid per truck or set a max number of trucks for a price.The electric company wanted to drive through my place to work on line in a R/W.That is until I told them I would have someone at the gate counting trucks and they would pay for each one.Why does he have to access your property?Could be a pain unless you really wanted the money

 

[Tree Spud]

Any advice on drawing up an agreement with the forester who will be contracting work out to cut timber on neighbors property? I'd like them to restore it to how it looked originally and was contemplating some other things.

Was hoping people have encountered this before and I would be able to get some advice on unforeseen issues I hadn't anticipated.

Regards,
Matt

You could contact your local state forrester as they can help. The problem with any written agreement, are you going to spend $$ in court if they violate it? And who is the judge of what damages are owed?

If you have an agreement, require and $5k-$10k deposit, to be held in trust by your attorney.

 

[MA VT Flatlander]

It will never be restored to look like it did originally

 

[buckdeer1]

Just like an oil lease they are great if you make enough to buy land without one if not they can be a stinky mess that has pumper driving through busting deer at daylight.But heck I get 29.00 of month for mine.

 

[Tree Spud]

Personally, I would never allow what your neighbor is asking.

If his only removal point is your property, his timber is worth nothing standing.

Buy him out, take a share or the profits, or do nothing.

This is tough love and can create animosity, but I will guarantee you after years of doing favors for neighbors, once he gets his timber out you will have no recourse.What are you gonna do when his crew got stuck and a skid steer slid sideways and got stuck behind you 113 year old massive oak ... and they cut it down?

This was how the west was won, leverage and oppourtunity ... good fences make good neighbors ;)

 

[yoderjac]

I think you are in a fortunate position. We just completed a logging operation. Because of the topography, the logging trucks had to cross about 20' of the neighbors property. Before we owned the property, it was owned by a paper company. When we first bought it and I met the neighbor, he was really ticked at the paper company who crossed his land and moved the corner pin. When I suggested to our forester that we needed to get permission from him to cross that corner, he advised us not to ask. He said that once you ask, if the person say no, you are screwed and they can demand about anything they want. If you don't ask and just do it, the neighbor has to file a suit and generally the actual damage is so low that it is not worth them suing and even if they do, you have to pay the minimum.

In spite of the recommendation, I talked with the neighbor with whom I had developed a good relationship over our years of ownership. He gave us permission at no cost and only admonished us to keep the corner pin in place or to replace it if we had to move it. Everyone was happy in the end. I'm glad we did not follow the foresters advice.

So, the fact that your neighbor is asking permission up front speaks very well. Asking for any access path to be returned to its original condition is not unreasonable. Take pictures.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[mglenn005]

Request at bulldozer grade any areas for planting of seeds (native grasses or future food plots) if a landing area. If roads / trails are being cut, request waterbars and turnouts be installed and seeded in grasses for erosion control. I would specify quantities in the contract.

 

[j-bird]

The comment was made that it will never be as it was.....that is VERY accurate. I have places that where logged a few years ago and even though we used a dozer to level the trails they are still lower than the surrounding area because of the soil compaction, and there is nothing that can really be done.

 

[yoderjac]

Request at bulldozer grade any areas for planting of seeds (native grasses or future food plots) if a landing area. If roads / trails are being cut, request waterbars and turnouts be installed and seeded in grasses for erosion control. I would specify quantities in the contract.

We actually specified that no fescue could be used and that all of the seeding of decks and such would be done with Winter Rye. We also specified that top soil needed to be removed and reapplied to decks after decompression. Our intent was to use the decks as food plots. It worked out well for us.

Thanks,

Jack