Neighbor Trouble - Need some advice

[Tree Spud]

Tough guy stuff will not go well---you are putting yourself on the wrong side of the law when you take it into your own hands. Remember CHAI VANG? He was in someones stand and without permission was also on land without permission, he was approached by several hunters who thought they would bully him. He walked a liitle ways and turned around proceeding to kill them all. It can happen--it did happen.

I agree; however, I think they are past the welcome wagon lady approach. I remember the Chai Vang situation very well. I also know of many more situations where predators have used people's fear to take advantage of them, and hurt/kill/assault them and their families.

We all head to the remote areas to gain a sense of freedom, relaxation, & peace. the problem is that the stress we are trying to get away from is just different. We enter a community where we do not have any connections, friendship, or a base of security. We are just money passing through these areas interrupting their world. These are places where the "law" is not relevant or on our side.

Easy to say what not to do. Removing the tough guy approach, what is your real & experienced advice?

 

[TreeDaddy]

Further,
35 acre has more to lose than the jack asses if he engages the "whoop dat ass" approach

Third paragraph in treespud's post above is particularly insightful

Ive been in similar situations over fencing/cattle issues

bill

 

[35-acre]

Thanks everyone for all of the ideas! I am still staying somewhat quiet on this one as there is a lot of good opinions and I don't want to stifle them. At this point just about anything is on the table for me (I think). I have thought of dropping the lease, but I like hunting up there and that as a solution goes in the "they win" bucket (just like me selling my place that's been in the family and that I've put habitat work into). That lease is 100+ acres and gets me into remote areas of the state game lands, which has proven good to me in the past. So if I give that up, I am really giving up a lot of land that I have easy access to.

Right now (well, keeping me up last night), I have been thinking of calling the local ECO and telling them where they can find some baited deer. The concern I have is how any action could blow back on me/my place if the slobs even thought I was involved. People have used the term "bully", I guess that's part of it. They just do other stuff like bait, shoot stuff without tags/season (suspect/very sure), trash my property, etc. all of which is really more than just the typical bully. If the ECOs went at the right time this week, they might catch a few guys. If they don't catch the "head guy" it should still drive those who get in trouble away from him/my area.

Considering season is winding down, I am thinking of waiting until next year to really do much except for monitoring my own property. If I reach out to the ECOs next year, they will have more time to build a case on all of the activity (baiting & poaching). I could also talk to the land owner of their lease (but I suspect that will blow back on me or tip them off as well). With both of those approaches focusing more on next season and eventually driving them out of my area.

I am thinking about putting up a camera up to track all of their activities, pics of them hauling corn in on ATVs, hauling too many animals out of the woods, hunting with the wrong weapon, at night, etc. and working with the ECOs on it. With this kind of approach, I might have pics or video of the whole group being part of all of these activities. They might all get a slap on the hand but with a "big net" and using law enforcement, it might help.

Regardless, at this point I know that I will have to leave a trailer at my property to haul my ATV back and forth if I want to go on the lease. If the ECOs are up there, I'll be getting a ticket if I use the state road.

 

[Catscratch]

I can't advise to what your best actions would be, that's a personal thing. I know I hate loosing. I know I would FIRST try to resolve it without conflict which could make it worse. I would go a long ways to make sure it went this route. If I couldn't make that happen then who know's what direction it would go. It probably wouldn't be pretty or comfortable. I probably wouldn't exactly win, but they wouldn't either. Cordial relationships with neighbors are very important.

 

[35-acre]

I can't advise to what your best actions would be, that's a personal thing. I know I hate loosing. I know I would FIRST try to resolve it without conflict which could make it worse. I would go a long ways to make sure it went this route. If I couldn't make that happen then who know's what direction it would go. It probably wouldn't be pretty or comfortable. I probably wouldn't exactly win, but they wouldn't either. Cordial relationships with neighbors are very important.

I agree and I think I can still be my cordial self in all of this.

 

[Tree Spud]

To be clear, I am not advocating a physical confrontation as the best course of action. In situations of conflict like this your brain is your best weapon. Staying calm yet being firm is always good as it sounds like they are testing you. You just need to recognize that you are dealing with individuals who are not rational and may not react to you in a civil manner. If you are going to report them to the ECO's and still plan on hunting up there, expect things to get worse rather than better.

 

[H20fwler]

From outside looking in your minor trespass for not asking this year for what you had permission for in years past is/was a very small infraction and you manned up and apologized. What they did and are doing in retaliation is beyond over the top.
I have zero tolerance for bullies or trespassers for any reason and tend to go nuclear more than passive approach when dealing with assholes.
You have a few choices;
Go full on Comanche
Walk away
Back door their lease and offer to pay landowner a stupid amount to buy out their lease.
These people can never be trusted and will never be someone you want as a friends, I wouldn’t be to civil with them.
That’s just me so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[bueller]

I'm scratching my head a bit. You allege these guys are no good, and I don't doubt it. Yet you are ok with asking them for favors such as driving through their property. And now since that's off the table (quite possibly because you over extended that favor) you want to call authorities on them for something that "somebody" (maybe them maybe not) did to you. Clearly upset that you will have to trailer your machine because the authorities (that you want to call) may catch you illegally riding on the roadway (which you prefer to do as stated in your first post) with your machine since you can no longer ride on the "trouble makers" property to get to where you want to go.... A little piece of advice for the future, don't ask for nor take anything from people that you believe are up to no good. I have a gut feeling there is more to this story that hasn't been told and they and maybe even others are upset with you for more than just the access issue. Be careful of entering into a war that you cannot win.

 

[Da U.P. 'eh]

This is all so familiar. I am retired from 40 years in law enforcement and during those years I learned that, other than marital trouble, "neighbor troubles" are the worst. Regardless of whether it starts with trespassing in a rural area, or letting your dog soil the neighbors lawn, they get nothing but ugly if things cannot be settled up front and early on. When L.E. is called in to help resolve the issue it becomes a recurring theme where both parties, regardless of the pettiness, call in to report the other's transgression.

I would advise you to address it with the neighbor as best you can. Hopefully settle it then and there and move on with life.

These situations never end until someone moves out of the area. Good luck!

 

[Mortenson]

I agree with the post above. Try to find some common ground and get along or be prepared to never get along and/or someone leaves. From my experience law enforcement will rarely be able to resolve these type situations. They just have bigger fish to fry, and they like to see these things resolve on their own. Just what I've seen. Your mileage may vary. I see some people who are so damn stubborn they aren't going to find a way to ever be neighborly. Then it's time to quickly lose patience and go Comanche as H2O says. I hate the thought of losing a giant deer over a fence sometime because people couldn't find a way to at least coexist. Racking up large attorney bills or erecting a section of high fence shouldn't be off the table, but a last resort.

 

[35-acre]

I'm scratching my head a bit. You allege these guys are no good, and I don't doubt it. Yet you are ok with asking them for favors such as driving through their property. And now since that's off the table (quite possibly because you over extended that favor) you want to call authorities on them for something that "somebody" (maybe them maybe not) did to you. Clearly upset that you will have to trailer your machine because the authorities (that you want to call) may catch you illegally riding on the roadway (which you prefer to do as stated in your first post) with your machine since you can no longer ride on the "trouble makers" property to get to where you want to go.... A little piece of advice for the future, don't ask for nor take anything from people that you believe are up to no good. I have a gut feeling there is more to this story that hasn't been told and they and maybe even others are upset with you for more than just the access issue. Be careful of entering into a war that you cannot win.

Nope, sorry but there isn't more to the story...

I'm upset based on the damage to my property. If they would have just come to me and said, "Hey things changed, we don't want you riding our road." I wouldn't have been happy but certainly it's their right. Instead they chose to damage my property and then come tell me to stay off thier road.

As I mentioned in my OP, I've given the long version of the story and admit that I didn't have permission this year. While it's a hassle to trailer my machine, it won't be terrible. I have a trailer, I can leave it there and use it as needed. It was more convenient not to trailer my ATV but oh well.

As you said, I won't ask them for anything going forward. I'll be cordial, because I don't need trouble (more) or to be tied to them in any way. But if I can get them to move on, that would be great, or just leave me and mine alone. As I've said, this isn't because they won't extend the access to me, this is about the things that are suspected of doing that aren't legal (by me and the other leesors) who also fear retribution. As I mentioned, this is primarily because I believe almost to a certainty that they damaged my property. Whoever did it, would have come from their access road likely following my ATV tracks.

 

[WeedyJ]

This is one of the worst situations to deal with. They are probably half crazy, which means you can't reason with them. However, the tough guy approach will only most likely escalate things, especially if you have more to lose than they do. Since they did not do anything in the past, and your driving through this year ticked them off, then maybe trailering will be the answer. Maybe they felt disrespected and felt the need to puff up their chests. Good luck with these characters.

 

[ssesox]

"A little piece of advice for the future, don't ask for nor take anything from people that you believe are up to no good"

This piece of advice from Bueller is the best that has been given. Since you border state land I would be very careful about accusing the slobs of vandalism. Hell, it could be anybody.

 

[sandbur]

I had trouble with a neighbor and after repeated break ins over many years, it was finally torched.

Maybe it was the neighbor or his brother or a friend of theirs who I asked to leave my land.

Years back, I had a renter of the cabin that I had to evict because he didn’t pay rent.

You don’t know who did it. Be lawful in everything you do and be careful. Stay on your own land.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tree Spud]

"A little piece of advice for the future, don't ask for nor take anything from people that you believe are up to no good"

This piece of advice from Bueller is the best that has been given. Since you border state land I would be very careful about accusing the slobs of vandalism. Hell, it could be anybody.

No, that is putting the OP on the defensive and stating he has no knowledge of the neighbors, activities, and property surrounding him.

The SOD defense ... some other dude ... is usually wrong.

Bad neighbors are well known and easily identifiable ... I trust Beullers judgement, but also see these bad neighbors trying to force the back property owner (35-acre) off his lease so they have a no charge access to his property.

 

[bueller]

Another thing I've learned is that when a person has pissed someone off enough to have them damage stuff they've usually pissed off a few others also, whether they know it or not. 35 acres access could have been terminated simply because others in addition to him may have also taken up using that road. Other than being a-holes the OP has no proof at all that the people he suspects damaged anything. Should have never used these dudes property no matter how convenient. They are not your friends and should've have been kept at arms length. Hi and bye, nothing more.

 

[35-acre]

Another thing I've learned is that when a person has pissed someone off enough to have them damage stuff they've usually pissed off a few others also, whether they know it or not. 35 acres access could have been terminated simply because others in addition to him may have also taken up using that road. Other than being a-holes the OP has no proof at all that the people he suspects damaged anything. Should have never used these dudes property no matter how convenient. They are not your friends and should've have been kept at arms length. Hi and bye, nothing more.

You might be on to something Bueller. Maybe the other leasors caused an issue that I don't know of that had these guys a little riled up. Then when I was on their road, it caused them to snap. Or maybe they have one of their bait piles close to that road and they didn't want to me to know about it, maybe they were even there and when I drove by I ruined their opportunity to poach. Regardless, I was back at my property today and looked things over again in daylight, I repaired my tree cages and put out more cameras. I am certain that whoever did damage my stuff came off their lease and access road. The one that I had used of theirs. I am assuming (not accusing) that it was them, but I base that on a lot of things that has me relatively certain.

I can be sure, aside from the cordial chat with these guys (if they stop by my place, I don't seek them out) I haven't engaged them in any other way to piss them off. Heck, in general I don't see them except to wave when they drive by at night in their trucks (my light inside is on, they can probably see me, so I wave). There really isn't anyone else in this area except for the other group of guys - great guys - that lease. I text and chat with them and we've got an agreement to look out for each other (one of them is actually law enforcement of some type, and they have the same concerns about the slobs). The state game lands near me is narrow at the public road (like 80 ft wide), so no one comes up there to hunt it, yet it is a lot of land once you get far away from the road. I say all of this to point out that this is truly a remote place. I can spend a weekend there in the summer and see no one for 3 days; no one else to piss off.

At this point, I'm going to continue to collect evidence of anyone that trespasses on my land (I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I find someone has).
I'm going to continue to be cordial to the slobs; NOT asking them for use of their access road.
I'm going to take my utility trailer to my property and leave it there (I've got to figure out a way to lock it and a way to keep porcupines from eating the plywood and rubber)
I will haul my ATV the few hundred yards to my lease and back as needed.

Through hindsight (never would have guessed something like this would happen) - these things are what I should have done all along.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I would file a complaint, so it is on record. Do t accuse anyone, but make the complaint so it is on file. Then install more security. I have several cameras on my land, and most of my security cameras have cameras pointing at them from a different angle, covers more area, along with a covering a camera. If you come on my land, chances are I will have a picture. If you walk a road, or trail onto my land I will have a picture, if you get close to my building site, I will have several pictures, if you mess with one of my cameras, more then likely I will have pictures of you messing with my cameras. So not just a trespassing, but a vandalism charge as well.

I can tolerate an accidental crossing of my line from a neighbor, or a retriever of an animal, but I will not tolerate vandalism, theft, or entering my buildings.

 

[Tree Spud]

^^^^ Agree with that. You don't have to point fingers, file a complaint with an LEO, not a game warden. Create a record ...

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I wanted to add one more thing, make what you did wrong, right. You trespassed on their land. Contact them, apologize, thank them for the past when they had let you use their land to access yours. Let them know that you forgot to ask ahead of time, and didn’t realize until it was to late, and assure them it won’t happen again.

That should make hard feelings by them go away and there shouldn’t be any future issues. Possible discuss what had happened on your land with them, and ask them if they have any trail cameras that could have caught some pranksters that could have vandalized your property. This way they are aware of what happened, and you aren’t accusing them. Make things right. At that point, there should be no hard feelings on their part, and with added cameras if anything does happen again, you should have proof.

If it was them that did it, just remember, you broke the law and tress passed first. They just retaliated. But you don’t “know” it was them.