neighbor stole my dirt to fix his dam, advice sought

[MoBuckChaser]

Willy, I understand you are pissed. The guy thought he had the green light to take out the trees and fix his dam. You think he went to far! Why don't you post a google earth pic of what you are seeing that we are missing? Because it sounds to me like the dam came straight up to your fence line and stopped. Maybe a picture would help us understand your problem.

 

[Bill]

Willy,
Everything you are saying is correct. But I agree with Mo on the lawsuit issue. Sure look into it if it makes feel better. I'd use that as my last choice. I've somehow been involved in several lawsuits both in business and personally. So far I haven't lost in any. But it cost me a heck of a lot to be right.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Willy,
Everything you are saying is correct. But I agree with Mo on the lawsuit issue. Sure look into it if it makes feel better. I'd use that as my last choice. I've somehow been involved in several lawsuits both in business and personally. So far I haven't lost in any. But it cost me a heck of a lot to be right.

Yep! My old man had a sign hanging behind his bar. It said "I might not always be right, but I am never wrong!"

I make sure I never lose if I can help it. I will spend 10 grand to make sure someone doesn't get 5 grand out of me! Just the way some guys work! ME for sure!

 

[willy]

Mo, you are right a pic may help clear some things up and perhaps help you and everybody else help me see something I don't. My property is on the north side of fence. The white line from road heading east is fence. The long white enclosed area is where trees were removed and the half circle looking one is where the dirt was taken from. Where that dirt was taken, the field on his side of the fence was tapered to have runoff go to the northwest across my land instead of to the southwest and to the pond.

The trees to the west of the pond were 3' to 6' cedars, which were removed but only scraped off at ground level. The trees along the road south of the mutual fence line were removed where the excavator and dozer went through. Unfortunately it created a clear view into mine where the trees were removed. The loss of the trees along the dam I can take, the ones from the pin on the fence and then east are flat out wrong and this is topped off with taking my soil and making the water run across mine causing erosion instead of to the pond.

This pic is from 5/5/2016

 

[MoBuckChaser]

That helps a lot Willy. I agree anything sacrificed along the Dam is helping both of you. I would not have a problem with that. However if that area between the yellow pins was taken for his gain?, You better have a talk with him. He should have pushed dirt from his own crop field to fix his dam, if it is his dam soley! If the dam is on both your property lines.......you need to chill. Just my take on it!

Thanks for the pic!

Edit: You do realize that the Dam was originally built with dirt off you property pushed up onto his property, dont you?

 

[UP Powers]

no way you could take this to litigation. Any decent lawyer from the defendant would tear you apart on the stand. You gave him permission to come on your land. End of story.

What you "could" do with the elderly gentleman. You could calmly describe what your expectations were on the stripping of the land and what you encountered was different upon your agreement. Bring to him a solution for the land being utilized for his dam. Ask for compensation for the stripping of the land with money or use of his land in perpetuity.

My greatest concern on this whole situation, is the legal recourse of the DNR or an environmental administration. I have a sick feeling that this was done without permitting and done in a way that could be liable to you. I would make sure that this land is legally his as if this guy croaks tomorrow you have ZERO recourse to the DNR. For all they know you did it.

If he didn't accept the terms of payment or use of his land, I would contact your local DNR or depart of environmental quality. This is a huge deal in my mind. I feel you could be at risk.

 

[Bszweda]

Crappy situation! Hope everything works out!

 

[mglenn005]

I feel for you, but when you gave permission to cut the trees, you essentially gave permission for a bulldozer to be on the skirts of your property. Taking 100ft of trees is not terrible, the bulldozer had to work. Now, you do have a claim for some of the dirt he used. I could see asking for the dirt he took to rebuild the dam (proven that you have pics showing a "depth" removed) and ask him to reseed the area and buy you some oaks,etc to replant.

Can you show us water flow before/after?

Your best bet is to not go in swinging. Talk to the guy first. Then police, then lawsuit. But you need to do it quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I guess I am someone who doesnt like to involve police, lawyers, or court. If it were me, I would ask him to meet you out there, and explain your concerns on the dam, and how it can be righted out of court. I have learned over the years that no one will win if it has to go to court.

It is possible that the old timer wasnt there, and wasnt aware the construction crew took the dirt from you, and they took it apon themselves to find the easiest dirt. In the grand scheme of things, how will this effect your land negatively, then ask him to correct that. You cant undo what was done, but you can fix what was done wrong.

If that means him paying for some new trees for cover, and hauling in a few loads of dirt to redirect the water back to where it is suppose to be, then that is what is fair. No amount of money will make what happen, not happen. Fix the issue, discuss with him to pay for it, and move on with life.

It may not be a bad idea just to ask a DNR agent to join you two when you meet to look at it, to discuss any future liability, and if it was done correctly in the DNR's eyes.

 

[Jeff23]

Do you know who did the work? You could go to the farmer and let him know you will be pursuing action against the contractor for trespassing and theft on your property. Maybe he told the excavator one thing and they took their own license with the work. IF that is the case, the farmer will be on your sideband an unscrupulous operator will pay, preserving a friendly relationship with you and a neighbor. This is a lot of hypothetical, but a similar thing happened with my dad years ago. A logger knowingly stole timber from a neighboring property, and my dad paid them for it to maintain a relationship even though he knew nothing about it, and certainly never authorized it.

 

[Needmorebrush82]

I guess I am someone who doesnt like to involve police, lawyers, or court. If it were me, I would ask him to meet you out there, and explain your concerns on the dam, and how it can be righted out of court. I have learned over the years that no one will win if it has to go to court.

It is possible that the old timer wasnt there, and wasnt aware the construction crew took the dirt from you, and they took it apon themselves to find the easiest dirt. In the grand scheme of things, how will this effect your land negatively, then ask him to correct that. You cant undo what was done, but you can fix what was done wrong.

If that means him paying for some new trees for cover, and hauling in a few loads of dirt to redirect the water back to where it is suppose to be, then that is what is fair. No amount of money will make what happen, not happen. Fix the issue, discuss with him to pay for it, and move on with life.

It may not be a bad idea just to ask a DNR agent to join you two when you meet to look at it, to discuss any future liability, and if it was done correctly in the DNR's eyes.

I agree with this 100%. Involving the legal system instantly builds a wall between you and the neighbor. Saying "Hey I would really like to meet you at the pond dam and discuss my concerns" leaves an open door. Once called out on their wrong doing most neighbors will make it right. I can almost bet your neighbor will try because he knows that access to his pond dam may be needed from time to time. You could even approach it as an opportunity to create a right of way for future use. A simple way to approach would be that you do not want to argue with your neighbor or have this issue come up again so you would like for him to fix this issue and in return you are willing to establish right of way with him. Incentives for both sides and an even stronger relationship with a neighbor for when the deer don't fall where they should.

 

[wiscwhip]

The only thing I will say is pursue the legal end of it without the neighbor's knowledge immediately. You don't have to file suit. Then meet with him to discuss, maybe he doesn't have first hand knowledge of the situation? Maybe the contractor took matters into his own hands? In the end, if he wants to be a dink about it, then hammer him and the contractor with a lawsuit. Pretty sure it would still be illegal for the contractor to pull soil off of your property without express permission from you, not hearsay from an adjacent landowner. For those who keep talking about "permission" to remove trees, what permission? Willy didn't sign a damn thing! These posts are the only mention of him giving permission for anything, and he could recant them as being hypothetical. Hillary and Donald do it and get away with it everyday..............

 

[H20fwler]

I would go right over and have a talk with him, I would start out polite then go from there.
There is no way he didn't know they used your dirt, if he is like 99% of every old retired farmer I know he was there while it was going on.

 

[willy]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I greatly appreciate it. Sleep sucked last night, not much as I let this situation get me riled too much. Alarm went off and it seemed like I had just finally fallen asleep. I call a highly recommend lawyer at 7:30 and we had a fine conversation. He advised me to talk to the landowner to see what he would do.

I called the landowner at 8:50 and we had a good, calm conversation. He has agreed to meet me at 8 am Wed. to look at the work and said he doesn't want me upset with any of the work and will make it right. This sounds good, we shall see.

Something I don't understand is that he said they used my dirt but are going to use his dirt once he get the beans combined. Red flag to me since I don't see anything else that needs to be done on the job.

 

[Buckly]

I'm trying to figure out why he would divert water away from the pond and on to you. You would think he would want water to go to the pond!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

When and if the ponds fill up, they have a spillway that releases water at one end of the dam or another. Or they have a over flow pipe that would release water. If they didn't, the pressure could compromise the whole dam. My guess is the dam had the spillway when built. And slowly over time it has eroded away, thus needing repair. Not a big deal to build and repair when one guy owned all the land. But since willy bought land on the downhill side of the dam, its now a problem.

 

[Dennis Duffy]

Good to hear! Hope it all gets worked out with no one else having to get involved!

 

[willy]

Meeting went well this morning. Talked about an hour with owner and contractor and my terms were agreed to and the work will stop only when I agree that my concerns have been met. The landowner seemed genuinely concerned about my concerns but still didn't understand why I had an issue with them using my dirt and not his. I said he would feel the same way if I brought in an excavator to fill in an eroded gully on my side of the fence with dirt from his side.

"He said he used mine because beans were still on his and that he planned on putting the dirt back when the beans were out." I am not understanding that one bit.

He said they will take care of the issues once the beans get out as he wanted to wait till the beans were out before taking the soil under them. There aren't a 100.00 worth of beans on top of the soil he is going to pull over.

The dirt will be brought back over to my side from his bean field.

The fence line will be built back up with drainage to both sides of the fence like prior.

IF this does indeed all happen then I will be content with the outcome, if not then a different approach will have to be taken.

 

[Tree Spud]

Meeting went well this morning. Talked about an hour with owner and contractor and my terms were agreed to and the work will stop only when I agree that my concerns have been met. The landowner seemed genuinely concerned about my concerns but still didn't understand why I had an issue with them using my dirt and not his. I said he would feel the same way if I brought in an excavator to fill in an eroded gully on my side of the fence with dirt from his side.

"He said he used mine because beans were still on his and that he planned on putting the dirt back when the beans were out." I am not understanding that one bit.

He said they will take care of the issues once the beans get out as he wanted to wait till the beans were out before taking the soil under them. There aren't a 100.00 worth of beans on top of the soil he is going to pull over.

The dirt will be brought back over to my side from his bean field.

The fence line will be built back up with drainage to both sides of the fence like prior.

IF this does indeed all happen then I will be content with the outcome, if not then a different approach will have to be taken.

Make sure you follow-up with a letter detailing your concerns and the expected resolution. State that you understand all parties have agreed and if they have not, they need to communicate to in writing by a certain date. Put an expected date for all work to be completed by. Send the letter with confirmed delivery receipt and signature required by the recipient to both your neighbor and the contractor.

If it does not get resolved you need to document everything.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Did you tape video tape record your meeting?