MN bills introduced to allow crossbows during archery season.

[4wanderingeyes]

If states just allow 1 buck per year, no matter the weapon of how you take it, rather then 1 for gun, 1 for archery, etc.. It shouldnt matter if you use a hand grenade, or a bb gun, 1 dead buck, is 1 dead buck.

One may even argue that less deer would be injured, or got a way and died if their weapon was more deadly.

For me buying a crossbow, I would just be forlonging my time in the woods, as I would be the same guy that has been there for the last 40 years, just progressing into newer technology so I can still hunt.

 

[bwoods11]

I'm one of the Minnesotans who bought a crossbow this year. However, unlike the people you know, I've hunted with a vertical bow of some sort for over twenty five years. Was happy to have an excuse to add another tool to my kit.

I don’t blame anyone . My brother in law bought one too. My point was we heard hunters say it won’t impact the hunting pressure much and it won’t affect the number of deer that survive until the next season.

I knew it would .

There should have been concessions. Any time you add a season of in this case another weapon, something else has to be taken away , or withdrawn. Move the gun season back then ? Or limit tags, maybe make the crossbow season a separate season?

It’s going to impact the state in a rough time. Zone 1 has few deer, the farm country counties were hit hard by winter kill. Minnesota is in tough shape for deer hunting (with some exceptions).

Let’s face it, the deer are hunted hard from Sept 15-Dec 31 (including 29 gun days) or more. This will only add to the odds against the deer ! I’m for changes that will make the state better ! When will those changes come ?

But let me add Merry Christmas!

 

[Brian662]

I don’t blame anyone . My brother in law bought one too. My point was we heard hunters say it won’t impact the hunting pressure much and it won’t affect the number of deer that survive until the next season.

I knew it would .

If they're being honest, everyone knew it would. They were just blinded by their own desire to be more successful to care.

All the guys saying "more ethical, more humane" are just using those words in replacement of the words "easier" and "more successful". A fine excuse in their minds to practice less, smash the easy button

Again, from my point of view that is all just fine, but it should come with some sort of sacrifice like bwoods said. The herd is already in a fragile position throughout most of the state's landscape. If we as stewards were to make room for a season long crossbow season, something else should have been sacrificed to balance things out.

Time will tell how it plays out in the long run.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

If they're being honest, everyone knew it would. They were just blinded by their own desire to be more successful to care.

All the guys saying "more ethical, more humane" are just using those words in replacement of the words "easier" and "more successful". A fine excuse in their minds to practice less, smash the easy button

Again, from my point of view that is all just fine, but it should come with some sort of sacrifice like bwoods said. The herd is already in a fragile position throughout most of the state's landscape. If we as stewards were to make room for a season long crossbow season, something else should have been sacrificed to balance things out.

Time will tell how it plays out in the long run.

My thing is, why even bother having seasons if we are just managing for a number. Just start rifle hunting in September. One can make that argument. But if you believe in the desire to reward those who choose to put in the efforts of limiting their efficacy, there needs to be distinguishing. Archery should be more difficult. Not crossbow difficult, vertical bow difficult. That’s the point of the differing seasons. We are just tiptoeing into making seasons obsolete.

 

[SwampCat]

A lot of folks talk like any deer killed with a crossbow are going to be over over and beyond what is killed by every other mehod. I think a lot of folks fail to understand a lot of the deer killed with crossbows would be killed with some other method at some other time during season. We first bought a crossbow so the grand daughters could extend their hunting time into bow season. None of the adults used a crossbow to actually hunt with for several years. When the first two grand daughters started hunting - between archery, ml, and mg seasons - they killed most of the deer in our family. But the cumulative total for the year was no more than before they started hunting. So far, there have been four deer killed this year on my ground - three by the grand daughters and one by the daughter in law. About what we killed before the grand daughters showed up.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

A lot of folks talk like any deer killed with a crossbow are going to be over over and beyond what is killed by every other mehod. I think a lot of folks fail to understand a lot of the deer killed with crossbows would be killed with some other method at some other time during season. We first bought a crossbow so the grand daughters could extend their hunting time into bow season. None of the adults used a crossbow to actually hunt with for several years. When the first two grand daughters started hunting - between archery, ml, and mg seasons - they killed most of the deer in our family. But the cumulative total for the year was no more than before they started hunting. So far, there have been four deer killed this year on my ground - three by the grand daughters and one by the daughter in law. About what we killed before the grand daughters showed up.

Potentially correct but it goes to my point. If hunting is just black and white, kill a number to make the government happy, hunt 365 with any weapon until the number is met. But I think some still want some nuance and sport to what we do. My argument is crossbow Water down archery season. They make the appeal of getting out there before the masses incrementally less. It reduces the opportunity for those who at one time chose the harder route. The pro crossbow guy is arguing that harvest number won’t change, fine, then keep it the way it was and allow archery to be inherently more exclusive.

 

[sandbur]

I don’t blame anyone . My brother in law bought one too. My point was we heard hunters say it won’t impact the hunting pressure much and it won’t affect the number of deer that survive until the next season.

I knew it would .

There should have been concessions. Any time you add a season of in this case another weapon, something else has to be taken away , or withdrawn. Move the gun season back then ? Or limit tags, maybe make the crossbow season a separate season?

It’s going to impact the state in a rough time. Zone 1 has few deer, the farm country counties were hit hard by winter kill. Minnesota is in tough shape for deer hunting (with some exceptions).

Let’s face it, the deer are hunted hard from Sept 15-Dec 31 (including 29 gun days) or more. This will only add to the odds against the deer ! I’m for changes that will make the state better ! When will those changes come ?

But let me add Merry Christmas!

I count 32 days up in zone 1 and that assumes non cwd zones and no antlerless hunts.

Soon much of the state will have cwd and who knows what will happen.

 

[SwampCat]

while I believe most of the negative comments about crossbows come from the vertical bow elitists - claiming the crossbow hunters are going to crash the population - even when mg hunters are accounting for 75% of the overall harvest, or claiming that crossbow hunting is too easy and unethical, again, when most deer are killed with a firearm capable of being used by 10 year old girl to kill a deer at 400 yards - when really the elitist bow hunters are butt hurt because the state includes the crossbow hunters in with the vertical bow hunters. Believe me, I have been there - I didnt touch a firearm for deer hunting for 12 consecutive years - recurve or compound only.

But, all that said, I do understand MN, WI, and MI are going through a period of tough times for their deer herds. It is frustrating for us hunters, many of whom seem to be more concerned for the resource than the state’s DNR - who are entrusted to responsibly care for the wildlife.

I do agree, when a state’s wildlife resources are being unduly pressured by a variety of environmental factors, you shouldnt add more burden, whether actual or perceived. Seems like really poor timing to add more pressure to an already pressured resource.

 

[SwampCat]

Potentially correct but it goes to my point. If hunting is just black and white, kill a number to make the government happy, hunt 365 with any weapon until the number is met. But I think some still want some nuance and sport to what we do. My argument is crossbow Water down archery season. They make the appeal of getting out there before the masses incrementally less. It reduces the opportunity for those who at one time chose the harder route. The pro crossbow guy is arguing that harvest number won’t change, fine, then keep it the way it was and allow archery to be inherently more exclusive.

I still hunt some with a recurve. In my experience, compound hunting is at least twice as easy and efficient as a recurve (maybe more). Based upon the reasoning in this thread, should we give recurve/longbow hunters the first 60 days of what is now regular archery season and make compound hunters wait until Dec 1st?

I think at this point in most state’s season structure, there is too much going on to give each weapon use their own season dates. I have hunted extensively with pretty much all manner of weapons, and even a crossbow is a much less efficient weapon than either a ml or mg. Like it or not, it does fall in more closely with compound bows than ml, or mg. And you can still hunt with a longbow, recurve, or compound. Nobody is taking that away.

After decades of legal crossbow use in my home state - vertical bow hunters still kill more deer. I was an elitist bow - compound/recurve hunter for many years - I do get it looking at it from that point of view. Fortunately for me, I now worry less about what other folks do and try to worry primarily about where I can make a difference. But I do feel for those guys up north where their deer populations are taking a nosedive and their g&f dept throws another pressure on the herds. As much as the warm winter has adversely affected our duck hunting - it might be the best thing for the northern deer herd.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

If states just allow 1 buck per year, no matter the weapon of how you take it, rather then 1 for gun, 1 for archery, etc.. It shouldnt matter if you use a hand grenade, or a bb gun, 1 dead buck, is 1 dead buck.

One may even argue that less deer would be injured, or got a way and died if their weapon was more deadly.

For me buying a crossbow, I would just be forlonging my time in the woods, as I would be the same guy that has been there for the last 40 years, just progressing into newer technology so I can still hunt.

I’ve seen this one a lot but it would only make sense if everyone actually filled every tag they get. How many can legally be killed impacts things differently than how many are actually killed. Make it year round 24 hour open rifle season, more deer are going to get killed even if they don’t allow people to shoot more than one.

 

[hillrunner]

I’ve seen this one a lot but it would only make sense if everyone actually filled every tag they get. How many can legally be killed impacts things differently than how many are actually killed. Make it year round 24 hour open rifle season, more deer are going to get killed even if they don’t allow people to shoot more than one.

Yes, the more affective (easy) you make the weapons, the less hunting opportunity can be allowed if you want to maintain the resource. For example, If only sling shots were allowed, season could be never ending for everyone, and deer would never run out. On the other hand, if we are allowed to use thermal scoped rifles at night over bait, you'll have to severely limit tags.
In other words, If you make the barrier of entry so low that anyone can be successful, you'll need to limit opportunity in order to maintain the species. We could wipe them off the planet if we wanted. We need to draw the line in the sand at some point. For my tastes, we've already reached that point. Others may disagree.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Yes, the more affective (easy) you make the weapons, the less hunting opportunity can be allowed if you want to maintain the resource. For example, If only sling shots were allowed, season could be never ending for everyone, and deer would never run out. On the other hand, if we are allowed to use thermal scoped rifles at night over bait, you'll have to severely limit tags.
In other words, If you make the barrier of entry so low that anyone can be successful, you'll need to limit opportunity in order to maintain the species. We could wipe them off the planet if we wanted. We need to draw the line in the sand at some point. For my tastes, we've already reached that point. Others may disagree.

Shocking I know…but I agree!

 

[SwampCat]

Yes, the more affective (easy) you make the weapons, the less hunting opportunity can be allowed if you want to maintain the resource. For example, If only sling shots were allowed, season could be never ending for everyone, and deer would never run out. On the other hand, if we are allowed to use thermal scoped rifles at night over bait, you'll have to severely limit tags.
In other words, If you make the barrier of entry so low that anyone can be successful, you'll need to limit opportunity in order to maintain the species. We could wipe them off the planet if we wanted. We need to draw the line in the sand at some point. For my tastes, we've already reached that point. Others may disagree.

But, I think a lot of people some how believe a crossbow is the most effective weapon on earth. I hunt every year with a recurve bow, a compound, a crossbow, a muzzle loader, and a modern rifle. In pure terms of effectiveness, not given the seasons allowed - in my personal opinion, I would rate a coumpond four times as effective as a recurve. A crossbow 33% more effective than a compound, a muzzle loader four times as effective as a crossbow, and a modern rifle three times as effective as a ml. Of course, those percentages will vary depending on your situation - but no doubt, a modern firearm is most effective.

In most of the southern half of the country, modern rifles take 70 percent of the harvest - with archery of all kinds, and ml - making up the rest. Point being, if you really want significant more deer to make it to older age, you alter the modern gun season.

As you go north and east, mg seasons become more restrictive and archery account for a greater percentage. Point being, in my state we have a sixty day mg season and those hunters harvest 70 percent of the deer. Crossbow hunters harvest fewer deer than compound hunters. But if our mg season was only one week like a lot of the northern or ne states, a lot more folks would be more serious about a crossbow, ml, or compound. To think if you have a crossbow season and the crossbow hunters take 10,000 deer - and then close that crossbow season you are going to save the lives of 10,000 deer is pure ignorance.

 

[sandbur]

But, I think a lot of people some how believe a crossbow is the most effective weapon on earth. I hunt every year with a recurve bow, a compound, a crossbow, a muzzle loader, and a modern rifle. In pure terms of effectiveness, not given the seasons allowed - in my personal opinion, I would rate a coumpond four times as effective as a recurve. A crossbow 33% more effective than a compound, a muzzle loader four times as effective as a crossbow, and a modern rifle three times as effective as a ml. Of course, those percentages will vary depending on your situation - but no doubt, a modern firearm is most effective.

In most of the southern half of the country, modern rifles take 70 percent of the harvest - with archery of all kinds, and ml - making up the rest. Point being, if you really want significant more deer to make it to older age, you alter the modern gun season.

As you go north and east, mg seasons become more restrictive and archery account for a greater percentage. Point being, in my state we have a sixty day mg season and those hunters harvest 70 percent of the deer. Crossbow hunters harvest fewer deer than compound hunters. But if our mg season was only one week like a lot of the northern or ne states, a lot more folks would be more serious about a crossbow, ml, or compound. To think if you have a crossbow season and the crossbow hunters take 10,000 deer - and then close that crossbow season you are going to save the lives of 10,000 deer is pure ignorance.

Your statements are not entirely correct. In the northwoods, rifles kill most of the deer.

 

[SwampCat]

Your statements are not entirely correct. In the northwoods, rifles kill most of the deer.

 

[AtomApple]

Maybe at your skill level a xbow is only 33% more effective than a compound.
but for the people that have never even used a compound, a xbow could be 500% more effective.
it’s not just about you and your grandchildren. Most are arguing about the future of hunting for the entire state.
do you think when your grandchildren first started hunting with a xbow it was only 33% more effective than if you handed them a compound, given the exact same amount of practice time on each weapon?

 

[AtomApple]

TikTok - Make Your Day

this funny, I love when he says, “just get a crossbow”

 

[SwampCat]

Maybe at your skill level a xbow is only 33% more effective than a compound.
but for the people that have never even used a compound, a xbow could be 500% more effective.
it’s not just about you and your grandchildren. Most are arguing about the future of hunting for the entire state.
do you think when your grandchildren first started hunting with a xbow it was only 33% more effective than if you handed them a compound, given the exact same amount of practice time on each weapon?

For sure, not. I was speaking of myself and the other folks who had already hunted with a bow. Now my wife, she killed a deer 12 hours after she shot her first compound. But also, even for a kid, a rifle or ml is exponentially ahead of a crossbow. Just had a seven yr old grand daughter shoot a doe at 185 yrs this eve with a 6.5 creedmore. Could have maybe done that at 30 yards with a crossbow.

I do get your point. But i still maintain a lot of the deer killed with a crossbow would have been killed with something else sometime during the year. A deer killed with a crossbow is not necessarily above and beyond what will be killed with another weapon.

 

[Bill]

No more (or Less) deer are killed on my farm because of crossbows. You only get to kill 1 at my place regardless of weapon. If a State, County or property owner chooses not to limit the number or type of deer harvested the weapon doesn't really matter does it?

 

[SwampCat]

No more (or Less) deer are killed on my farm because of crossbows. You only get to kill 1 at my place regardless of weapon. If a State, County or property owner chooses not to limit the number or type of deer harvested the weapon doesn't really matter does it?

Some truth to this. Two of my grand daughters killed deer with a crossbow early during the archery season. They would probably not have been able to take these deer with a vertical bow. My hunters took two deer with a mg. We decided we wanted one more deer this year, our Christmas MG season was open, and I took one of the grand daughters out for an evening and she killed a huge doe. We could have killed deer at any time with a modern gun during these threes days. Point being, had the grand daughters not killed the two with a crossbow early, one of my hunters - probably a grand daughter - would have killed two more with a ml or modern gun. The crossbow did not increase the number of deer we killed - it just changed the method. My wife, my son, or myself did not kill a deer this year - because we chose not to.