MN bills introduced to allow crossbows during archery season.

[S.T.Fanatic]

To play devils advocate I don’t find the leap between longbow/recurve to compound to be as great as compound to crossbow. I could get a crossbow, have my wife shoot it a handful of times with zero physical effort to get the scope sighted in, set her in a blind and kill a deer in the same day. And she has zero business hunting, especially in archery season. You don’t have to draw, practice, worry as much about range, get standing, etc like you do with a bow. It’s not archery, it’s not a gun, it’s a hybrid between both. Should be used in gun season.

I would say the same thing with modern compounds. When I shoot my bow for the first time every year I have absolutely no problem putting it in the 10 ring the very first shot after it sat in the case for 8 months ( and my bow is going on 12 years old)

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Yeah, i think a jump from recurve to compound is at least as big from compound to xbow, maybe more. It's not hard to get basic proficiency to 30 yards with a compound. A recurve actually requires dedication if one is going to take ethical shots at animals with it.

 

[Brian662]

Had a coworker tell me a story of how he shot a 150" buck on his place with his crossbow here in MN. Said he hunts a ground blind overlooking a "clearing" (I have my suspicions) and the buck came in. He moved his crossbow that sat in his Bog Death grip tripod until his scope settled in on the deer at 60 yards, fired the shot and hit a branch, clean miss. Same buck came in two days later and he shot it in the same clearing at the same range.

In no way, shape, or form is that "archery".

 

[Brian662]

Yeah, i think a jump from recurve to compound is at least as big from compound to xbow, maybe more. It's not hard to get basic proficiency to 30 yards with a compound. A recurve actually requires dedication if one is going to take ethical shots at animals with it.

That's fair, then is the next jump from crossbow to shotgun and the jump after that from shotgun to rifle?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I would say the same thing with modern compounds. When I shoot my bow for the first time every year I have absolutely no problem putting it in the 10 ring the very first shot after it sat in the case for 8 months ( and my bow is going on 12 years old)

I agree to a point. But I’ve also been shooting for 30 years. My point was I can run to Academy, grab a crossbow, hand it to my wife, and kill a deer that day. I could hand her a compound and she’d have a better chance throwing it at him.

 

[Telemark]

That's fair, then is the next jump from crossbow to shotgun and the jump after that from shotgun to rifle?

Recurve
Compound
Crossbow
Pistol
Muzzle loader
Shotgun
Rifle

There are some half stages in there, too, when you consider the type of ammunition and what kind of optics are allowed.

 

[Brian662]

Recurve
Compound
Crossbow
Pistol
Muzzle loader
Shotgun
Rifle

There are some half stages in there, too, when you consider the type of ammunition and what kind of optics are allowed.

Mostly agree but I'm much more deadly with my muzzle loader than a shotgun and the ML season in MN (in my zone which is shotgun only) is 7 days longer than the rut shotgun hunt. It's crazy, but we don't need to go down that road again.

 

[Kdog]

Being from GA, all of the deer did not die when they approved compounds or crossbows just like they all did not die when we got a primitive weapons season.

I hunted with a long bow for 7 years and never killed a deer despite having reasonable shots each year (probably my fault for being a terrible hunter). I borrowed my brothers compound (old POS that had too long of a draw) on a Friday afternoon, shot it Friday night with the backyard lights on, and killed my first bow buck the following Saturday morning @ 7:05 at 30 yards. Sunday morning I killed a doe @ 25 yards. Bought a nice bow and killed a minimum of one per year there after. I know it's not the exact same, but it is not far off.

The excitement of crossbows will drop (just like primitive weapons) and everything will be back to normal in a year or two when we find something else to complain about.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Mostly agree but I'm much more deadly with my muzzle loader than a shotgun and the ML season in MN (in my zone which is shotgun only) is 7 days longer than the rut shotgun hunt. It's crazy, but we don't need to go down that road again.

Same, I can easily shoot a 1/2" group at 100 yards with my muzzleloader.

 

[homerj]

Anybody who's willing to learn and who has access to a good pro shop should walk out with a new compound and be more than able to kill a deer with it the same day.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I didnt read this entire thread, but I just bought my first crossbow this year, but there is a pretty big group of archery hunters that are mid 50's + that struggle with bow hunting, because of injuries, or age in general. If it werent for crossbow, I would probably be giving up archery altogether in the next season or two. I am sure there are several that have already given up, that now are just starting to use crossbow, so if it wasnt for crossbows, almost a complete generation would be done hunting already, this just extends their hunting.

I know in the past you could get a drs note and hunt with a crossbow, but that was something I would have never done. I had 5 shoulder surgeries, and struggle to pull back a bow at 50#, the new cross bow should make my shots more accurate, and less wounded deer in the woods. So what I am getting at is, crossbow hunting may not be pulling a bunch of "new hunter" but extending, or bringing back old hunters.

But even with a cross bow for me this year, I still didnt not get a deer. One has to pull the trigger to get one, and the few deer I saw, werent the right ones for me.

Hunting with a crossbow isnt the same as gun hunting, you are still limited to less then 50 yards, you still cant blast through brush, or have a pump, or semi auto crossbow. You basically get 1 shot, chances are if you miss, it is less likely with a crossbow to reload and get another shot off, then a compound bow.

Not everyone hunts prime land, where deer are lined up daily to give you multiple shots on every hunt, crossbow hunting wont be the game changer you think it is.

 

[SD51555]

Is the idea that having fewer acres of developable land has/will increase the value of land that isn't under such easements to where it becomes out of reach?

I'd guess that Interest rate changes in 2022 impacted peoples ability to afford land magnitudes more than the loss conservation easement free land due to LSOHF.

That's my contention, yes. It has happened in many areas decades ago. I remember when I was in college in Winona (2001), and people were paying $4,000/ac in Houston County MN. Granted, they had the goods, but holy smokes. $40k/year was good money back then, but you ain't gonna have $160k to buy a 40 of rec land at those wages. It's been a long time since I've heard land prices down there, but it wouldn't shock me if they were $8-12k or higher now. I have been offering to buy my neighbors 20 acres next to me, which is 1/3 swamp, and 2/3 flat hay ground. Ten years ago, that might have fetched $750/ac overall, and I don't think $2000/ac would get it done now. I don't mind paying good money for good ground, but this is 1-cutting/yr hay ground w/4" of topsoil and a dry swamp.

Interest rates slowed down the borrowing for sure. The larger problem is the sheer amount of money printed since Covid. I think the land game shifted from everyone being able to take a crack at it to now only cash buyers getting a crack at it, and now the billionaires are buying land and governments have mandates to get people and industry off the land (WEF, John Kerry, Dutch & French farrmers etc) and into prisons 15 minute cities. It may have slowed transactions in the land world, but I don't think prices have suffered at all. The race riots during covid didn't help the situation in hobby farm country either.

I just think the more MN looks like Cuba, the less fulfilling life will be for those confined to towers, debt, fake food and magic shows to keep them from rebelling. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd give up all my increased equity if I still had the option to buy land at 2016 prices. Having high value land is about as important to me as having high value kidneys. Don't care what they're worth, I'm not selling.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I didnt read this entire thread, but I just bought my first crossbow this year, but there is a pretty big group of archery hunters that are mid 50's + that struggle with bow hunting, because of injuries, or age in general. If it werent for crossbow, I would probably be giving up archery altogether in the next season or two. I am sure there are several that have already given up, that now are just starting to use crossbow, so if it wasnt for crossbows, almost a complete generation would be done hunting already, this just extends their hunting.

I know in the past you could get a drs note and hunt with a crossbow, but that was something I would have never done. I had 5 shoulder surgeries, and struggle to pull back a bow at 50#, the new cross bow should make my shots more accurate, and less wounded deer in the woods. So what I am getting at is, crossbow hunting may not be pulling a bunch of "new hunter" but extending, or bringing back old hunters.

But even with a cross bow for me this year, I still didnt not get a deer. One has to pull the trigger to get one, and the few deer I saw, werent the right ones for me.

Hunting with a crossbow isnt the same as gun hunting, you are still limited to less then 50 yards, you still cant blast through brush, or have a pump, or semi auto crossbow. You basically get 1 shot, chances are if you miss, it is less likely with a crossbow to reload and get another shot off, then a compound bow.

Not everyone hunts prime land, where deer are lined up daily to give you multiple shots on every hunt, crossbow hunting wont be the game changer you think it is.

Well stated.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

That's my contention, yes. It has happened in many areas decades ago. I remember when I was in college in Winona (2001), and people were paying $4,000/ac in Houston County MN. Granted, they had the goods, but holy smokes. $40k/year was good money back then, but you ain't gonna have $160k to buy a 40 of rec land at those wages. It's been a long time since I've heard land prices down there, but it wouldn't shock me if they were $8-12k or higher now. I have been offering to buy my neighbors 20 acres next to me, which is 1/3 swamp, and 2/3 flat hay ground. Ten years ago, that might have fetched $750/ac overall, and I don't think $2000/ac would get it done now. I don't mind paying good money for good ground, but this is 1-cutting/yr hay ground w/4" of topsoil and a dry swamp.

Interest rates slowed down the borrowing for sure. The larger problem is the sheer amount of money printed since Covid. I think the land game shifted from everyone being able to take a crack at it to now only cash buyers getting a crack at it, and now the billionaires are buying land and governments have mandates to get people and industry off the land (WEF, John Kerry, Dutch & French farrmers etc) and into prisons 15 minute cities. It may have slowed transactions in the land world, but I don't think prices have suffered at all. The race riots during covid didn't help the situation in hobby farm country either.

I just think the more MN looks like Cuba, the less fulfilling life will be for those confined to towers, debt, fake food and magic shows to keep them from rebelling. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd give up all my increased equity if I still had the option to buy land at 2016 prices. Having high value land is about as important to me as having high value kidneys. Don't care what they're worth, I'm not selling.

My wife was at WSU 01-05 Someone had to pay the bills and feed the little bellies. My grandfather said about that time he would sell me some land for 5500-6000 per acre. I thought i bet you would like to at that price. I couldn't afford the light bill at that time let alone land. Today land win Winona county is going for around $8500 on the low end and up to 14K for prime farmland. I will be buying some as soon as I can find a seller (which is quite hard for where I want to buy). It's going to cost a premium but there is no way I could have pulled it off before now.

 

[SD51555]

I didnt read this entire thread, but I just bought my first crossbow this year, but there is a pretty big group of archery hunters that are mid 50's + that struggle with bow hunting, because of injuries, or age in general. If it werent for crossbow, I would probably be giving up archery altogether in the next season or two. I am sure there are several that have already given up, that now are just starting to use crossbow, so if it wasnt for crossbows, almost a complete generation would be done hunting already, this just extends their hunting.

I know in the past you could get a drs note and hunt with a crossbow, but that was something I would have never done. I had 5 shoulder surgeries, and struggle to pull back a bow at 50#, the new cross bow should make my shots more accurate, and less wounded deer in the woods. So what I am getting at is, crossbow hunting may not be pulling a bunch of "new hunter" but extending, or bringing back old hunters.

But even with a cross bow for me this year, I still didnt not get a deer. One has to pull the trigger to get one, and the few deer I saw, werent the right ones for me.

Hunting with a crossbow isnt the same as gun hunting, you are still limited to less then 50 yards, you still cant blast through brush, or have a pump, or semi auto crossbow. You basically get 1 shot, chances are if you miss, it is less likely with a crossbow to reload and get another shot off, then a compound bow.

Not everyone hunts prime land, where deer are lined up daily to give you multiple shots on every hunt, crossbow hunting wont be the game changer you think it is.

I think to truly appreciate the limits of a crossbow, someone needs to try to hunt with one. They're a pain the ass to carry in the woods, they're clumsy in the blind, and deer can still jump the string.

 

[SD51555]

My wife was at WSU 01-05 Someone had to pay the bills and feed the little bellies. My grandfather said about that time he would sell me some land for 5500-6000 per acre. I thought i bet you would like to at that price. I couldn't afford the light bill at that time let alone land. Today land win Winona county is going for around $8500 on the low end and up to 14K for prime farmland. I will be buying some as soon as I can find a seller (which is quite hard for where I want to buy). It's going to cost a premium but there is no way I could have pulled it off before now.

Is that highly erodable prime farmland? I don't recall there being much flat earth in Winona County.

 

[Mortenson]

Crossbows are like pickleball. Bunch of octogenarians can't get it done on the real courts anymore, so instead of staying home to play pingpong or Wii tennis like they should, they get all the courts converted to their sport. Maybe all us old washed up bowhunters should just know when to call it, and stay in our lane with gun season and Big Buck Hunter. lol

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Is that highly erodable prime farmland? I don't recall there being much flat earth in Winona County.

There is plenty of flatish ground in the uplands. That premium price is going to be for large fields that aren't divided by woody draws or creeks. I would like to think under the right circumstances recreation and pasture ground should be able to be bought around 4500/acre. You cant plant corn in the woods or in the creeks so a lot of the bigger farmers don't want it. However, many of those farmers have been on their land for 4-5 generations and many of them hunt. They can afford to buy those properties they "just have to have" and will bid them up high. Most land that gets sold around here never hits the market so it is tricky.

 

[SwampCat]

I have seen it in my state too. Crossbow use problems seem to be more generated from pissed off vertical bow hunters than a real management problem.

From the way you MN hunters talk - crossbow hunters are the least of your problems.

 

[SD51555]