Mix rates for tilled ground?

[Catscratch]

I thought those were as low as a guy could go and still use what u wanted to use.


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I'm pretty dense SD. I'm still not getting your train of thought on this one. If WC's are good at out competing RC why plant them 3 pounds to 1 over the RC? Seems like the RC wouldn't stand a chance in that situation. What am I missing?

 

[davidhelmly]

I would go heavier on the clover seeds. Planting on plowed ground, there's a good chance that some of the small seeds will get buried too deep, plus if you're using coated seed your PLS weight will probably only be half of what you plant, I would definitely add chicory too.
2 Durana
2 Ladino
2 Aberlasting
5 Med Red
4 Alfalfa
1 Radish
3 Chicory
20 Awnless Wheat.
20 Winter Rye.

 

[Foggy47]

I do a mix like this each fall.....but plant into existing clover fields. I know my rates are pretty heavy......so I backed off on the clover a bit this year. Basic mix for me is shown below.....but sometimes I add or substitute with other stuff.....depending on seeds in my "inventory";

(This year I added some oats, some barley, some yellow sweet clover, and balansa clover....in different plots,. Also a few lbs of some sorghum to see if it will compete in the established clover to gain some vertical cover)

1.5 Ladino
5 Medium Red Clover
3 Crimson (it won't over winter for me.....but I am using it up)
5 GH Radish
2 DER
1 PTT
2 Chicory
100+ Winter Rye

 

[Foggy47]

^. I have found that the GH Radish and some of the brassica will in fact germinate and grow to one level or another....even in the thick clover. Variable results with these seeds depending on weather. It's pretty cheap seed.....so spreading about six bucks / acre is not much of a gamble. Adds a bit of diversity if it grows.

Same goes for the Sorghum.....I don't add much.....but IF it will grow to only 3 to 5 feet tall.....I feel it may provide little security for whitetails to venture into my plots during daylight hours.

All that over-winters for me is the rye, the clover and the chicory.

I've not used any alfalfa in years.....as it seems expensive to establish....especially back in my tillage days. Now......I have been reconsidering adding a bit each year. Same could be said for chicory which I added beginning last year.

 

[SD51555]

I'm pretty dense SD. I'm still not getting your train of thought on this one. If WC's are good at out competing RC why plant them 3 pounds to 1 over the RC? Seems like the RC wouldn't stand a chance in that situation. What am I missing?

I cranked the rate down as low as one reasonably could instead of recommending throwing out the white clover altogether. I paid no consideration to red to white ratios.

I’m trying very hard to answer the question asked and not veer into the weeds. I had to delete a whole sermon on self terminating legumes I had drafted up.

Member when Brad used to ask simple questions about planting beans and we get four pages deep in a thread and nobody addressed his original question? I do miss those threads.


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[Catscratch]

I cranked the rate down as low as one reasonably could instead of recommending throwing out the white clover altogether. I paid no consideration to red to white ratios.

I’m trying very hard to answer the question asked and not veer into the weeds. I had to delete a whole sermon on self terminating legumes I had drafted up.

Member when Brad used to ask simple questions about planting beans and we get four pages deep in a thread and nobody addressed his original question? I do miss those threads.


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Spill the beans! I'm good with a Brad 4 page deep non-answer!
You want me to completely get rid of the white clovers?

 

[Foggy47]

I look at the white clovers as a long lived perennial that’s going to pvoide good food for the deer. The red clover becomes a sacraficial nitrogen producer for subsequent plantings as well as food . Red clovercosts half that of white and provides diversity is easy to grow on most any soil.

 

[Kdog]

SD hates white clover, I hate crimson and balansa clover. Everyone needs to do what works best for them in the zone/region they are in and their current soil conditions. Based on you going with PLS (non coated), you could cut my clover rates in half. I wouldn't change anything else though.

 

[SD51555]

Spill the beans! I'm good with a Brad 4 page deep non-answer!
You want me to completely get rid of the white clovers?

Well, I'm in the middle of a change of religion. I could give you my hypothesis and where my mind is headed next. Knowing that this is hypothesis only, let's take a crack at it. But it should probably be separate threads, because they could get lengthy, and we may want to be able to find it later.

To answer your question, would I completely get rid of white clover? Yes I would. Short version for you specifically is this:

You and I have very similar approaches to plotting. We'd like to do less, accomplish more, and with as little equipment as possible. Enter the concept of 'self terminating-clovers' and 'roll-tolerant' perennials. I base all of this on what I experienced rolling my blend of winter cereals, YSC, balansa, red, chicory, alfalfa, and plantain. The beauty of having a full understanding of how these plants work, you can put them on very specific tasks and they can pay enormous dividends.

Winter cereals, YSC, Balansa, Red: Finish (die) and lay down easily at just the right time so I don't have to spray, mow, till, or buy a crazy expensive chevron roller to deal with you. Generate an enormous amount of biomass for throw and roll so I don't have to buy a drill.

Chicory, alfalfa, plantain: Survive what the group above is doing, and the rolling process, and then punch out fresh regrowth despite not being cut.

If that can be choreographed as I just laid out, A guy should be able to throw seed in there once a year, flatten it and be done. That's it. For your area, given you've got probably two months more growing season, I'd look at longer season crops for broadcasting in, along with repeat seeds (cereals, clovers). I'd be trying cowpeas and sorghum in Kansas if you've got 90-120 days of growing after rolling. I have 60 - 75 at best.

 

[Catscratch]

You know I've been doing this a while sd. TnM and regenerative farming type of stuff since 95/96? I'm going the other direction. Looking to make it more challenging. Lol, actually just looking at something different. Kinda want to figure some other stuff out. I went ahead and planted this evening.


Even took an after pic...