Mini Excavator

[Thread Savage]

Cat mini’s are in a class of their own. My second choice would be Kubota because their Diesel engines are awesome, but I wouldn’t own a non-Cat mini. Have you thought at all about a backhoe instead? They can do more and there are more used units available for sale.

But regardless, I’d get a hold of the Cat salesman in your area (versus speaking to the folks actually working at the building). There is someone near you who makes a living looking for these all day every day, making a trade, and getting you the used 303 with the hours/age/price points you’re after. Cat has 0% financing on CCE equipment too. Might have to be new though....not sure about that.

 

[yoderjac]

Cat mini’s are in a class of their own. My second choice would be Kubota because their Diesel engines are awesome, but I wouldn’t own a non-Cat mini. Have you thought at all about a backhoe instead? They can do more and there are more used units available for sale.

But regardless, I’d get a hold of the Cat salesman in your area (versus speaking to the folks actually working at the building). There is someone near you who makes a living looking for these all day every day, making a trade, and getting you the used 303 with the hours/age/price points you’re after. Cat has 0% financing on CCE equipment too. Might have to be new though....not sure about that.

I have thought about a backhoe but I'm not sure it would be as good of a fit for me. First, I already have a 45hp tractor with a FEL. So a TLB would duplicate the FEL function. You also have to turn around, move the machine, and re-stabilize it. I like the idea of a grading blade on the hoe. I can get the same with a rear blade on the tractor to some degree, but it is very handy to have when sculpting roads. Sine my primary use is logging road and ATV trail maintenance, I think a mini is a better fit. Trying to position a backhoe to make water bars can be problematic. A mini in the same weight class is much less long and you can do some work to the sides.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

I have a 50g j.d. and it has a 30" bucket with thumb. I think the mini ex is the best habitat tool you can get. Digging ditches,clearing plots,stacking brush/trees and trail maintenance. I just wish i had the 6-way blade instead of just up and down. Live and learn. I should add that i did run a cat mini about the same size and wouldn't shy away from them either---it comes down to personal preference with the cab layout but once you run any of them you get used to the controls. Either brand you will pay extra for the name and both deere and cat are VERY proud of their machines.

 

[yoderjac]

Yesterday, I stopped at the New Holland dealer about 10 miles from the farm. They had nothing used and even the new ones were too large for me. I told the sales guy about the 2006 e35SR I had seen and said that while it had low hours and was in great shape, I was concerned that I could not find much information on-line for that model. He introduced me to the service manager. She brought up the ad and was able to read the serial number from the pictures. She looked up there service records and found the had serviced a few machine of that model in the last year or so. She wrote the serial number and some other information and told me to take it to the parts manager and have him check on parts availability. She also looked up the common service problems from their knowledge base and found very few for that model. She comment on the asking price being quite good. The parts manager looked it up and said they have most of the maintenance parts in stock and there was nothing that shows as unavailable.

Keep in mind that my purpose this week was just to get a little hands-on education and I have not chatted with my neighbor's "guy" yet. Having said that, of all the machines I saw this week, this was really the only viable candidate. Everything else was either out of my foreseeable price range or was not in nice enough shape for me.

While this E35SR is plumbed for auxiliary hydraulics, it does not have a thumb and has an 18" pin-on bucket. While an 18" bucket is nice to have for general digging on a machine that size, it does not fit my purposes well. I think I would like a 12" bucket for most of the trenching for water bars and such. I think a 12" bucket can do anything an 18" bucket can do, just slower. I'd also like to have a 36" grading bucket. I think that would be nice for shaping the roads for drainage. Once you start talking about multiple buckets, pin-on becomes less practical. That means adding a quick coupler and compatible buckets. And for creating atv trails and such, a hydraulic thumb would round it out. It looks like the ball-park cost for each of these items is about $1,000. So, that would add bout $4,000 to the cost. That cost does not include installing any of these, just parts. On the up-side the machine is in great shape with only 720 hours and, having a place that maintains them only 10 miles from the farm (all flat) might mean I don't have to upgrade my old 1997 F150 to an F250 for towing it.

Any thoughts on bucket sizes, quick couplers vs pin-on, and such would be appreciated ask I continue to think things through.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I have a 50g j.d. and it has a 30" bucket with thumb. I think the mini ex is the best habitat tool you can get. Digging ditches,clearing plots,stacking brush/trees and trail maintenance. I just wish i had the 6-way blade instead of just up and down. Live and learn. I should add that i did run a cat mini about the same size and wouldn't shy away from them either---it comes down to personal preference with the cab layout but once you run any of them you get used to the controls. Either brand you will pay extra for the name and both deere and cat are VERY proud of their machines.

I'd love to have a larger machine like that. I've seen angled blades on the 3-3.5 ton machines but not a 6-way. I think kubota has a 6-way but I think it is only available on the 4K ton and up machines. I saw 50g machines at the JD dealer when I played with the 35g. The layout was pretty much the same.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

If you can get one with a cab you will be much happier. Going out and working when it's raining is better than sitting on the couch waiting for clear skies.

 

[yoderjac]

If you can get one with a cab you will be much happier. Going out and working when it's raining is better than sitting on the couch waiting for clear skies.

Yep, that is what I thought when I bought my tractor. Continuing design issues with AC cost me an arm and leg and I finally gave up and had them take it out. Even with the windows open, summer with glass is a lot hotter than an open cab. While cabs have benefits, especially where yellow jackets or hornets are concerned, an open cab is sufficient for me.

 

[yoderjac]

I checked out another one today that also looks promising. It is a Bobcat 430G. It has a thumb and a quick-attach 18" bucket. They are asking $2K more for this than the New Holland and this guy sounded less flexible on price so a final price difference may be greater than $2K. Here are my current thoughts:

I think I want a hydraulic thumb and 2 buckets at a minimum for my use, a 12" and 36" grading bucket. An 18" or 24" would be a nice to have but I don't think there is anything I can do with them that I can't do with a 12", just faster. With multiple buckets, I definitely want a quick release coupler. Manual is fine, but trying to change pins in the field doesn't make sense.

While the New Holland is plumbed for auxiliary hydraulics, I'd have to weld on a thumb. Since the bucket is pin-on, it would do me no good since I'd need to add some kind of quick release coupler. I may be able to work something out with the dealer if they have a use for the current bucket. I'm also thinking that there are few New Holland machines around. Trying to find used buckets or other attachments would be near impossible. I'm guessing 2 buckets, welding on a thumb, and some kind of quick coupler would add at least $3K to $4k to the cost. On the plus side, I've got a New Holland dealer 10 miles away and he drive is flat, so I could probably get away with my F150 for towing.

With the Bobcat 430G, I've already got the thumb and quick coupler. I think the quick coupler is one pin and one hook. I see lots of Bobcat machines around. I'm guessing finding buckets for this quick coupler would be easier. The Bobcat dealer is an hour away but it is all flat highway so I don't see towing for maintenance to be a big issue for this. Both the Bobcat and New Holland machines are low hour machines. The Bobcat has 100 hours less. The dealer bought the Bobcat at auction but the New Holland was a local trade. I did not see any indication of the Bobcat being a rental unit. (Can be good in that rentals are usually well maintained but often operated by idiots).

1) Critique of my thinking?
2) Any personal experiences with the Bobcat 430G?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

I agree about a cab without working ac in the summer heat it's a sauna.

 

[jsasker007]

Honestly, I have always stayed away from purchasing anything with an engine if it was a rental. I try to find out the history of the machine and if it's a one owner with low hours it's the one I go for. What would you do with a 12" bucket that you couldn't do with a larger bucket? Trench? I only ask because I have a 30" bucket and started out when I first got my machine thinking the same about a 12" bucket without any real reason for one. So far there hasn't been anything where I wished for a smaller bucket.

 

[yoderjac]

Honestly, I have always stayed away from purchasing anything with an engine if it was a rental. I try to find out the history of the machine and if it's a one owner with low hours it's the one I go for. What would you do with a 12" bucket that you couldn't do with a larger bucket? Trench? I only ask because I have a 30" bucket and started out when I first got my machine thinking the same about a 12" bucket without any real reason for one. So far there hasn't been anything where I wished for a smaller bucket.

Here is my logic. Let me know if you think it is flawed. I'll be maintaining logging roads. They put in waterbars with a dozer but they don't last long. I've got heavy clay soil. When the guys run over water bars with their trucks, especially when wet it wears the bars down. Next thing you know we have ruts going down the roads after a storm. The other issue is the flat roads where water puddles and guys run trucks through them and the next thing you know we have mud holes on low spots.

My plan for dealing with the hills is to dig a narrow trench tapered deeper as I go from high to low angled across the road like a water bar. I'd then fill the trench with quarry stone. I'm thinking the infiltration difference between clay and stone will be enough to diver the water and the stone filling in the narrow trench will make any dip much less. My thinking is that the cost of stone filling in a 12" trench will significantly less than a larger bucket. On the flat areas, my thought is to dig narrow trenches along the sides where necessary to get the road to drain into the trench. Where roads are not wide, I'd probably want a narrow trench. One final place where I narrow bucket might come in handy is cutting roots when taking down a tree.

I can't think of anything I couldn't do with a 12" bucket that I can do with and 18" or 24", it would just take more time. The other bucket that I think I would want is a 36" grading bucket. This would let me shape the roads for drainage in places where I can't easily use the blade.

I think an 18" or 24" bucket would be a good all around bucket, especially for digging. It would be ideal to have three. I'm shying away from the New Holland because it would probably be hard to find used buckets or 3rd party buckets compared to some of the more ubiquitous brands.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I've done a little more digging into the Bobcat 430 and it seems like they were having issues with the engine and fast track drive system around that model year. I also question the high horsepower on it. Most of the others and newer models I've seen in that size have lower horsepower. I'm thinking that HP is less important than weight and hydraulic performance. I'm wondering if that was a less efficient machine. Higher HP and lower efficiency is not a reason for me to avoid that model, but the issues I've been reading about might be.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

Smaller bucket can do the same as larger but takes a lot more time. Machine size is kinda tricky to figure without laying out all of your possible needs. Some of the projects I've done would have been quicker and easier with a bigger machine but some of my trails won't allow for anything bigger that what I have(don't want any wider trails). I still got the job done but it took longer. I tend to start off going to do a small job and almost always keep finding more to do and run out of daylight(these machines are addicting). It turns into a balancing act trying to keep the wife happy(anything short of divorce is the goal) and feeding my addiction to get more seat time. Lately I've been thinking about taking on side jobs for other people to give me an excuse to go play in the dirt. If there was one brand that was superior to all other brands then we would only have one option. Different needs and preferences bring up the need for all the options out there now. Then comes the options for tracks---steel, rubber or a combo of both? I've been running on rubber tracks and can't complain but i know steel is much more durable(things to consider ahead of time). Measure twice cut once. Find someone that is getting rid of there machine because they need a different size is better than the machine that is being sold because the owner figures it's going to start nickel and diming him real soon.

 

[yoderjac]

Good points. As far as tracks go, there simply isn't much steel in the size class I'm looking at. Most folks want machines that they can use on lawns and such in this size. I start to see steel in the used market at about 5 ton and up sized machines. Steel track would be a better choice for my use, but your rarely see a 3-4 ton machine with steel tracks in the used market.

I will have to say I did notice a difference between brands. You are right, some brands focus on one aspect while others focus on another. I have to say that Cat seemed to have the best of all worlds except price. In this class machine, Cat and Kubota seem to demand higher prices for equivalent models in the use market than the other brands. I will say that the specific model seems to outweigh the brand. I'm pretty much open to any brand if I can find the right machine at the right price.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

Just a reminder, even the very best machines need service eventually. When that time comes where can you get service? Some brands(the most common and popular) are the machines that have attachments more readily available that will actually fit like they should and the less common brands are the machines that need adaptors and fittings(usually damn near impossible to find) to use the same attachments. So then you can factor in the user friendly part of brand ownership. Service and attachment availability need to be thrown in the mix too. Asking people with hands on experience helps weed out problem machines if you can find someone who isn't brand loyal and biased in their review.

 

[yoderjac]

Yes, I've found that in my research. Each brand is quick to point out what they see as deficiencies in competing brands. That is helpful. One of my considerations on brand is the location of the dealership for service. On short relatively flat transports, I think I can keep my old F150 for towing. If I have to deal with tougher terrain or longer transport to a dealer, I'll need to upgrade to a 250 class truck for towing. I'm hoping to meet a friend of my neighbor next week who has been in the business. He is evidently retired and dabbling now. Sounds like a pretty good resource talking to my neighbor.

 

[Tree Spud]

Yes, I've found that in my research. Each brand is quick to point out what they see as deficiencies in competing brands. That is helpful. Once of my considerations on brand is the location of the dealership for service. On short relatively flat transports, I think I can keep my old F150 for towing. If I have to deal with tougher terrain or longer transport to a dealer, I'll need to upgrade to a 250 class truck for towing. I'm hoping to meet a friend of my neighbor next week who has been in the business. He is evidently retired and dabbling now. Sounds like a pretty good resource talking to my neighbor.

I always ask the sales rep what the competitors will say bad about his brand? I tell him that I have already discussed with his competitors and know what I have been told.

This helps to understand what type of salesman and dealer you are talking to. A good and knowledgeable rep will start out something like ... "Yep, we can all have issues at times, let's walk through what you have been told ... " You can then gauge whether they are knowledgeable or just defensive.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Jack, as you mentioned, resale is higher on Cats, which effects you only during the purchase. The rest of the time you have a top notch machine with the most universal attachments. But the best part, you buy it, use it for a few years, and you want to resell it, you will probably be able to sell it for what you bought it for.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Saw this link on another site but some excavator porn for ya. Believe this is with a Cat machine but yah it's really the operator. A bit bigger than a mini though, about 30K lb but this thing has cool attachments too.

 

[yoderjac]

Saw this link on another site but some excavator porn for ya. Believe this is with a Cat machine but yah it's really the operator. A bit bigger than a mini though, about 30K lb but this thing has cool attachments too.

Somebody's got skills! Tilt bucket is the cat's meow, but well beyond my pocketbook.