Mini Excavator

[yoderjac]

There are many tasks at the pine farm where it would be great to have a hoe like maintaining water bars, putting culverts, fixing drainage along roadsides, and more. My wife and I are currently building a 40x64 barn with a small 500' living area in it. We will sell our house when we retire and move into it while we build our retirement home and then this area will become spare bedrooms for guests. I have a barn builder working most tasks, septic, well, barn, living area, and such. I'm dealing with the road and power. The road is roughed in but not surfaced. I'm currently working power issues.

My current access easement allows for power and we would like it underground. I'm responsible for trenching, laying conduit, and covering the trench and the power company does the rest, at least to the meter. They will provide 1400' of wire for free and charge $8.17/ft beyond that. To use my current easement the I'd exceed the wire allotment by about $1500 worth. Most of the trenching would be easy along the road through the open area, but 500' of the road runs through a wood lot. I would not need to take out any oak trees, but the path would be so close to some trees that it would damage if not kill them and dealing with the large roots would be problematic. Trench must be a min of 4" x 36". Trying to route far enough around them would drive up the wire cost as well.

I'm currently working another option. There is a house 2 properties away that a guy has been building himself for the last 10 years, a little at a time and it has power. The route would go entirely through an open oak flat. I can route so no large trees need to be taken. It would come within roughly 6' from some so I'd still be dealing with roots but hopefully not enough to damage them badly. Tis route is about 900', well within the free wire allotment. The neighbor with the power source is willing to grant me an easement if I follow his preferred route on his land and dig him a short trench while I have equipment in. I still would need to cross a short section of another neighbor's property and I'm working that.

I'm considering a couple options:
- Hiring someone to do the job.
- Buying an old mini-excavator and doing 95% myself and hiring someone to do the fine work near power sources. With this option, I'd be looking for something in the $10K range and I'd keep it for use at the pine farm. I may eventually sell it. It will probably save me repair costs for using my loader for things I shouldn't.
- Renting a mini-excavator for a week for about $1,000 and doing 95% myself.

I don't think I'd have any problem trenching with a min-excavator. It may take some practice to get the bottom flat.

Any thoughts on size for this particular job? I have a 10K trailer so it would need to be under that.
Any thoughts or general guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MRBB]

IMO
as for which way to run wires
I am NEVER a fan of having anything I need , run thru someone else's property, even if they allow a legal easement
at some point there land can sell, and you could end up with new owners that are far from being so nice and easy going
its IMO< like asking for issue's/aggravation down the road, even with LEGAL easement, when you don;t need it!

owners can get funny, and you will have NO control over what happens down stream on there side
I'd call the extra $$ spent an investment in your peace of mind for the future!to have all things on your land!

now as for a machine?

I'd rent a decent sized excavator for the task at hand and rather have a larger than needed than the other way,
NOT sure where your digging, but in my area, you will hit so many LARGE rocks, having more machine than less is a MUST have to save time, and or possibly have some rental attachments on hand if needed
OR I would see what it would cost to HIRE the whole job out, as not sure what your experience level is at on operating a machine, and what a skilled operator can do in a fraction of the time, might be worth the costs, as they will also have the implements/buckets on hand, if they need to get thru rocks or??



and, as to the BUYING part of a MINI excavator?
IMO trying to find a decent used excavator for 10k or less is NOT going to be easy, and might end up costing you more $$ in repairs and down time

its a lot harder to find a decent excavator for 10 k, than it is a skid steer, and
tracked machines can add up to much higher up keep and wear and tear parts
so trying to find a mini excavator of any decent size for 10 k, will be DARN hard IMO or sure is where I am at! a decent one here is closer to 20k than 10!

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the insights. The power comes from another property no matter how it comes in. There are no issues once a legal easement is granted, because it is not granted to me, it is granted to the power company. Once installed, it becomes their headache if there are issues with future owners. In order to access my land, I have a deeded access/utility easement from the public road to my land. That is the first option with the long run. The second option is a shorter run but I need to get owners to agree to grant easement to power company. Once they do, it would be the same from a future issue standpoint.

As far as my experience level goes, I'm good with a FEL. I can functionally operate a dozer but I don't have many hours in the seat. As far as skills accomplishing work with a dozer go, I'd say I'm a beginner. I've had a reasonable amount of time on a backhoe. The machine was older and larger than most of the mini-excavators. It was probably a little over 10K. I've probably dug out 50+ hardwood stumps when clearing small fields at the farm.

Regardless of my abilities, I would not be close to the efficiency of a skilled operator. My time to accomplish a task would be at least double and I would not have the same level of precision.

My thinking regarding renting and doing most of the trenching myself would be to get hands-on experience with a mini-excavator to see if I really want to buy and old one for tasks at the farm. My guess is that an experienced operator could do 800' of trenching in a day. large rocks are not a likely issue with my soils. My thought was to rent one for a week, do the trenching work and then take it to the farm and do work there with whatever time I had left. The farm is about 15 minutes from the home site.

In terms of buying one, you are right. I could probably go $15K tops. I've seen a few old ones that look serviceable. Most have high hours but are operating well according to the pitch. They seem to run from about $10K to $20K. Since this won't be a daily or money making machine, I figure a high hour but well maintained machine should have sufficient life in ti for my farm use.

I realize finding one will take some effort, but I'm in no rush. If one comes along before this trenching needs to be done, I'll save the weekly rental fee if I decided to do it myself. If not, I'd just use this as a learning opportunity (if I do it myself) and take my time in looking for a machine purchase.

I'm hoping some guys on here have some experience and can give me a feel for the right size machine and perhaps even some specific brand/models I should look at and why.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

It's to bad your so far away. My dad has a mini that he is considering selling and getting into a little bigger machine. He bought his for around $12K about 5 years ago if memory serves me.

 

[Tree Spud]

Thanks for the insights. The power comes from another property no matter how it comes in. There are no issues once a legal easement is granted, because it is not granted to me, it is granted to the power company. Once installed, it becomes their headache if there are issues with future owners. In order to access my land, I have a deeded access/utility easement from the public road to my land. That is the first option with the long run. The second option is a shorter run but I need to get owners to agree to grant easement to power company. Once they do, it would be the same from a future issue standpoint.

As far as my experience level goes, I'm good with a FEL. I can functionally operate a dozer but I don't have many hours in the seat. As far as skills accomplishing work with a dozer go, I'd say I'm a beginner. I've had a reasonable amount of time on a backhoe. The machine was older and larger than most of the mini-excavators. It was probably a little over 10K. I've probably dug out 50+ hardwood stumps when clearing small fields at the farm.

Regardless of my abilities, I would not be close to the efficiency of a skilled operator. My time to accomplish a task would be at least double and I would not have the same level of precision.

My thinking regarding renting and doing most of the trenching myself would be to get hands-on experience with a mini-excavator to see if I really want to buy and old one for tasks at the farm. My guess is that an experienced operator could do 800' of trenching in a day. large rocks are not a likely issue with my soils. My thought was to rent one for a week, do the trenching work and then take it to the farm and do work there with whatever time I had left. The farm is about 15 minutes from the home site.

In terms of buying one, you are right. I could probably go $15K tops. I've seen a few old ones that look serviceable. Most have high hours but are operating well according to the pitch. They seem to run from about $10K to $20K. Since this won't be a daily or money making machine, I figure a high hour but well maintained machine should have sufficient life in ti for my farm use.

I realize finding one will take some effort, but I'm in no rush. If one comes along before this trenching needs to be done, I'll save the weekly rental fee if I decided to do it myself. If not, I'd just use this as a learning opportunity (if I do it myself) and take my time in looking for a machine purchase.

I'm hoping some guys on here have some experience and can give me a feel for the right size machine and perhaps even some specific brand/models I should look at and why.

Thanks,

Jack

I have a power line running to our place across a neighbors and the easement is for the Power company. You'll have nothing to worry with this type of easement as they are vetted legally and locked down tight.

Search OkieKubota threads as he in an excavator guy.

 

[yoderjac]

It's to bad your so far away. My dad has a mini that he is considering selling and getting into a little bigger machine. He bought his for around $12K about 5 years ago if memory serves me.

Tell me all about it. You may be too far away for me to buy it but I'd like to hear about the kind, size, issues he had with it, anything else you can tell me about it. I'm in learning mode...:0

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Jack, I wanted to bring up something, being you are doing, about the same thing I am doing, but I already have the shed built. Something for you to consider ahead of time. My plans were to build a shop, and build it with 2 bedrooms in it, live in that while I build my 2 bedroom house. Well this was virgin land when I started, no power, no well, no septic. Make sure to plan ahead on all. Make sure you get the correct transformer to feed the shed, and the house, otherwise they will charge you to upgrade it at a later time. Plan the well, and the septic out ahead of time, so the pipes dont have to cross over each other, and they can both be done preferably at the same time, so as to not have to redig the same area to run water, then dig to run the septic pipes.

My biggest recommendation is to plan ahead! I am running into a headache already with the septic. When I started, I sent in my plan for the shed, with the 2 bedrooms, so they approved the septic for a 2 bedroom mound system. But, being I am planning on building a house as well, my septic needs to be approved for a 4 bedroom, being the shed needs is 2 bedroom, and even though the shed will not be used for living after the house is built, they will not give me a building permit for the house, unless I have a sufficient septic to handle the shed 2 bedrooms, and the house 2 bedrooms. So now my septic is 3 times the cost , tripled in size, and may not even be approved because of my soil conditions. So I recommend getting the septic designed for both ahead of time. So to avoid surprises!

As for your question about running the wire, rent a trencher, it will dig right through most roots, then use a skid loader, or a tractor and loader to bury it.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Tell me all about it. You may be too far away for me to buy it but I'd like to hear about the kind, size, issues he had with it, anything else you can tell me about it. I'm in learning mode...:0

bobcat 325 W/27hp Kubota The only problem he has with it once in a while on projects is that is is to small. Many times it still handles the job it just takes a bit longer. It has a thumb which I would say is a must. He also has 3 different buckets for it. One big one I think 3' which is to big but works well in sand, I think the other one is 2' and the small one is 1' ? Im not exactly sure on the bucket sizes.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, I wanted to bring up something, being you are doing, about the same thing I am doing, but I already have the shed built. Something for you to consider ahead of time. My plans were to build a shop, and build it with 2 bedrooms in it, live in that while I build my 2 bedroom house. Well this was virgin land when I started, no power, no well, no septic. Make sure to plan ahead on all. Make sure you get the correct transformer to feed the shed, and the house, otherwise they will charge you to upgrade it at a later time. Plan the well, and the septic out ahead of time, so the pipes dont have to cross over each other, and they can both be done preferably at the same time, so as to not have to redig the same area to run water, then dig to run the septic pipes.

My biggest recommendation is to plan ahead! I am running into a headache already with the septic. When I started, I sent in my plan for the shed, with the 2 bedrooms, so they approved the septic for a 2 bedroom mound system. But, being I am planning on building a house as well, my septic needs to be approved for a 4 bedroom, being the shed needs is 2 bedroom, and even though the shed will not be used for living after the house is built, they will not give me a building permit for the house, unless I have a sufficient septic to handle the shed 2 bedrooms, and the house 2 bedrooms. So now my septic is 3 times the cost , tripled in size, and may not even be approved because of my soil conditions. So I recommend getting the septic designed for both ahead of time. So to avoid surprises!

As for your question about running the wire, rent a trencher, it will dig right through most roots, then use a skid loader, or a tractor and loader to bury it.

All great points. I hired a soil scientist to take cores before I bought the land and then to mark the drain field. He sized the drain field to handle the number of bedrooms in the barn plus the future house. My wife and I have a general design for the house. We have not had an architect work on it yet and I did nothing structural with it. We just did enough to be able to come up with an exterior foot print and make sure it is large enough to cover or interior needs. I first positioned the house on the lot and then staked the barn relative to the house. So, the soil scientist had the house and barn positions for reference when he staked the drain field. Things are set up so both can go into one septic tank and then into the drain field.

As for power, I've had some initial discussions. They know I'll be building a house. I had two options, one is to run power to the barn now with enough amperage to cover both and then run power from the barn to the house. This would have one meter at the barn. Another option is to have them run power to the barn now and run a second line to the house from the transformer later. This would give me 2 meters, one for each. I would be responsible for everything past the meter. There is a base cost of $30/month for each meter and then you pay for what you use. I'll probably go with 400 amp service for the barn. I plan to have a welder, shop equipment, the well pump, and the living area there. A typical house of my planned size has 200 amp service. So, I'm leaning toward the two meter option.

If I get a mini-excavator, I can clear small trees and brush as I go. If I go with a trencher, I'll probably need to clear the route first, but if it can do the job, it would be easier. My one neighbor (the one I still need permission from) is in construction and has a trencher. He offered to do some trenching for me on the original route (I presume it is not gratis but I'd at least get the neighbor rate) as he has a trencher. I plan to chat with him after he has a chance to see to new route and see what he thinks. I've got a small Kubota B2400 with a bucket that could easily maneuver in there to close the trench.

I found out today that after underground power is installed, the power company just lets it grow over. They don't keep it cleared like they do with easements with overhead lines. I guess at 3' deep they are not worried about roots or anything since it is in conduit.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MRBB]

if you wanted you can also back fill the trench in part way and top the top off with crushed stone(modify with stone dirt in it)
this way you will always know where its at, and it will keep a lot of things from growing over top of it
unless you don't like the look of it?

if your not big into knowing machines, I would strongly suggest taking someone that is, when going to look at any used one's all the more so high hour one's

as again, things wear out and at high hours, BIGGER things can be in need of repairs/replacing!
I would also stay away from any machines that have been known to be used in concrete work//driveways and likes
many operators, really hammer on them machines!

if your neighbors works with them often, maybe he would be willing to go look and ruin them for you before any possible buying happens!

operators that run things often, will notice wear and tear more than you ever will! and that can save you a LOT of money , even if you have to pay the guy to go! money well spent IMO!

ALL Bobcat machines, I know for a fact, if you call a dealer and give them the VIN< they will know if there stolen too, as you HAVE to give Vin to get parts for them from any dealer

and don't over look this side of things, skid steers and mini excavators, are stolen very often, and if you buy one, and it gets found, your out BOTH $$ and machine, unless you can sue to get it back from who you bought it off, and that isn;t always easy!
there might also be other makers that use vin and run checks, but I know Bobcat is and has been doing so for a LONG time

so, might be worth doing a VIN check on anything before buying! just some info to think about!

 

[yoderjac]

Outstanding advice! I'll definitely follow it!

 

[alldaysit]

Tell me all about it. You may be too far away for me to buy it but I'd like to hear about the kind, size, issues he had with it, anything else you can tell me about it. I'm in learning mode...:0

bobcat 325 W/27hp Kubota The only problem he has with it once in a while on projects is that is is to small. Many times it still handles the job it just takes a bit longer. It has a thumb which I would say is a must. He also has 3 different buckets for it. One big one I think 3' which is to big but works well in sand, I think the other one is 2' and the small one is 1' ? Im not exactly sure on the bucket sizes.

Where are you located..... and what’s he asking?

I’m heading all in for an excavator next. Im thinking I’ll start with a mini then move into the 20-40 thousand pound range. My brother in law who is a diesel mechanic told me to get one that is around 12 metric tons as it would be most useful for the clearing and land habitat projects I like to partake in. I have a local fella who is a heavy duty hauler that transports stuff for reasonable prices so it’s not an arm and a leg to move it 50 miles. These sizes are about as much cost wise as the minis, when you can find them. I can’t afford multiple pieces of heavy equipment (yet).

If you get one in the 5-7 ton range, they make mulchers for that size I think. I think I priced one of those out to around 15k (the mil her head unit) and have seen them used down to $8k.

I feel the excavator is the ultimate piece of equipment for habitat projects, and they took the place of the Tracked Front End Loaders like the Cat 953 (32k pound machine). I’ve seen some descent priced tracked FEL but get scared of the potential undercarriage costs.

If I was you, I would rent one, see how it goes, then go buy one because you won’t be able to live without it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

He lives in Trempealeau Wi. The machine is usually in Lewiston, Mn.

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I'm restricting and updating this thread. I now have power at the barn. I ended up hiring my neighbor who is in construction and has a fairly large backhoe to do the trenching. It cost about $3 per liner foot. I participated on the work crew so I got some experience working with the crew. I'm glad I did. There were a few roots and stumps that I never could have removed with a mini that he had to dig up going through the woods.

Ok, having said that, I'm back to considering buying a mini-excavator. We will be building a house in the next couple years so there will be more trenching for that. All is in the open where there are no issues with stumps or roots. In addition, during one of the hurricane residuals this fall, we got enough rain fast enough to let me see I need to do some grading and French drains along the quarter mile of entry road. Back at the pine farm, I'm seeing our logging roads degrade significantly. Many of the waterbars installed by the logging company were not effective. We have big ruts on the hills. Some of the flat spots have enough ponding that our equipment makes worse when wet and we end up with mud holes in time. I've been able to do some work with my FEL and boxblade, but it is the wrong tool for about 50% of the job.

My neighbor evidently knows a guy who has been in the business for many years and knows his stuff. He sold his company and is now retired but he still dabbles going to auctions and such. I have no ability to evaluate equipment and I'm a novice when it comes to maintenance. But with retirement looming, I'm hoping to develop new skills. My presumption is that my neighbor's buddy will make sure what I end up with is worth it. My neighbor says that there is pretty much a price floor for older machines that are running. He thinks that I could buy one, use it for a few years, and sell it for little if any less than I paid for it.

I have considered renting, but that simply does not fit with my personality or work process. As I get older, I'm learning to watch my body, work until I start getting tired, and then stopping before I get unsafe. This is a bit change from my balls-to-the-wall approach in my younger days. There is always something that comes up when I'm working on a project and there always delays. Unexpected rain can shut down a project. I will do best having a piece of equipment at my disposal. Even though the number of engine hours I put on it will be low, those hours will be distributed across a lot of wall clock hours.

So, here are the requirements I'm considering:

1) 6K-9K lbs. I want something large enough to be effective, but small enough that I can transport it using my existing truck and trailer. 7K-8K would be ideal.

2) Price: I can afford to put $15K-$20K into it.

3) I'm leaning toward a name brand where parts are readily available. Having said that, I'll trust the judgement of my neighbor's buddy.

4) I'd like the hours to be reasonable. 2K - 4K seems like a reasonable range for the price.

5) I'm not hard on this but I'd really like a thumb. Hydraulic would be ideal, but manual would be fine for my purposes. There is always brush to pick up and move around the farm.

I'm slowly learning about Mini's from online research, but that is far from hands on.

I'd like to hear any thoughts or critique on the subject. Am I expecting too much? Anything I should watch out for in particular? Any models that fall into this general category of machine are particularly good or bad?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

From my experience, anything at that price, you will be getting very high hours, or something that wont last long. If you are going to buy one, make sure it is gone through at a dealer, expect to spend about 30k, but with the minimal use you will put on it, you can turn around and resell it in a few years for about the same price, to a loss of a couple grand, depending on what you buy, and pay for. I know a lot of construction places that actually rent new ones, or lease them, because owning one, isnt practical to them.

 

[yoderjac]

From my experience, anything at that price, you will be getting very high hours, or something that wont last long. If you are going to buy one, make sure it is gone through at a dealer, expect to spend about 30k, but with the minimal use you will put on it, you can turn around and resell it in a few years for about the same price, to a loss of a couple grand, depending on what you buy, and pay for. I know a lot of construction places that actually rent new ones, or lease them, because owning one, isnt practical to them.

If I have to go above 20K it probably isn't practical for me. I'd be willing to go down in weight if necessary. I'm seeing reasonably low hour 4K lb machines under $20K. Rental companies often sell machines to keep stock up to date. The up side is that they are well maintained machines with low hours. The down side is that many were operated by idiots.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My suggestion Jack, rent a smaller one for a weekend, see if it will do what you want it to. Then rent a bigger one, and see the difference. You can always find a use for one for a couple weekends.

 

[Tree Spud]

My suggestion Jack, rent a smaller one for a weekend, see if it will do what you want it to. Then rent a bigger one, and see the difference. You can always find a use for one for a couple weekends.

This is good advice. I have a backhoe for my 60 hp tractor with an 18" bucket. It is great for a variety of projects. The challenge is learning the manual controls. I also cannot move the tractor while using the backhoe so it takes time to do anything as I have to reposition the tractor.

Renting both size excavators will give you a feel for how much work (bucket size, reach, digging depth) you can do and what power you have to do things like stump removal, pushing trees over, etc.

 

[yoderjac]

Good idea. I don't plan to dig hardwood stumps with it. I've done that with a larger backhoe and 10 year old hardwood stumps can be a challenge. I don't think any of my primary tasks (road maintenance and trenching would be a problem, even with a lighter mini. The ability to clear brush or move logs around would be gravy, nice gravy, but gravy none the less. My upper limit on size is based on my ability to transport. I would rather have a machine that is smaller and in better condition if that is the tradeoff given my price constraints.

Thanks for helping me refine my thinking on this.

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Also the thumb thingy is such a convenient tool. You may not need it all the time, but when you are trying to pick up that log, or rock, and you spend 20 minutes trying with the excavator, and get pissed off and have to run back and grab a skid loader to do it, you will wish you just got a thumb attachment for it.