Make Money with Land

[gjs4]

Prices wont drop.

You need to find a good buy...which is either undervalued, poorly marketed or comes with owner held financing. Timber is all over the board, Ag will help but if you're nota land barren its likely not an offset or money maker. Flipping is not for everyone....those that do best are highly efficient, have a networked team and know the game well.

There's not a rec land guru out there who would say don't buy great deal on good property or good deal on a great property. Everyone has a crystal ball but the happier side are those with land.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Adjustable rate mortgages and an economic down turn will be the ticket to more affordable properties. The commercial office restate is about ready to drop like a rock.

I just bought a farm from a guy who bought a year and half ago with an adjustable mortgage that he couldn’t swing with the raise in rates.

 

[Brian662]

I just bought a farm from a guy who bought a year and half ago with an adjustable mortgage that he couldn’t swing with the raise in rates.

What kind of adjustable rates are these guys getting? 5/1 arm is the likely the most common for lowest rates. How could/would something like that adjust already?

 

[Brian662]

What kind of blows my mind with realtors is that they are showing a $950,000 listing and have twenty half-assed photos with almost no description of the property or the neighborhood. They are not exactly doing their clients any favors.

Every property I own was done a disservice by the realtor. My house we bought in 2013 had some absolutely awful pictures taken of the house and property. Couldn't believe it when we viewed the place. Another hunting property had a few aerial pics of the ag land and a couple apple trees, didn't show off the topo features, buck sign, or anything.

By far the easiest way to buy hunting land below market value is to find a parcel listed by Century 21 or similar who really specialize in single family homes, not rural land.

 

[Turkish]

What kind of adjustable rates are these guys getting? 5/1 arm is the likely the most common for lowest rates. How could/would something like that adjust already?

Whatever it was, homeboy came out smelling like a rose.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

What kind of adjustable rates are these guys getting? 5/1 arm is the likely the most common for lowest rates. How could/would something like that adjust already?

I have no idea honestly. That info came from his friend, my neighbor, and not the seller.


But to your point on the agent side. A property listing I had with the antler hat people was a joke. I even sent them good pics to use but instead they used several from the previous listing! Their write ups are all generic. Notice this next you look, I bet over 2/3 will say diverse somewhere in the listing. It can be a damn 100 acre field and they will squeeze diverse in there. They advertised a pond on my main farm as 5 acres, it wouldnt be 5 acres if multiplied by 2. Next time I sell, I’m doing the listing and advertising on landwatch by owner.

 

[Bill]

Adjustable rate mortgages and an economic down turn will be the ticket to more affordable properties. The commercial office restate is about ready to drop like a rock.

Think that many were/are adjustable rates? I bought pre-covid, didn't need to finance but I wasn't spending my cash when a fixed 15 year could be locked in at 3%

 

[Bill]

I just bought a farm from a guy who bought a year and half ago with an adjustable mortgage that he couldn’t swing with the raise in rates.

Well that answers the above question...

 

[H20fwler]

The housing market here has been up and down with recent sales, some sell quick others linger a month or two.
Have been seeing the opposite here as far as land sales slowing down it is flat out nuts now, a sellers market.
Two weeks ago four farms from one family in the area went up for auction, from 20 acres to 80 acres. Lowest was 24K an acre highest 31K an acre. It makes no sense whatsoever, three were bought by different fifth gen farmers highest was a developer. Rough ground here is 12K if it can be found. Same thing is happening in the counties around me.
There is no way the land can ever even pay for itself in a generation…no sense to it at all.

 

[Bill]

The housing market here has been up and down with recent sales, some sell quick others linger a month or two.
Have been seeing the opposite here as far as land sales slowing down it is flat out nuts now, a sellers market.
Two weeks ago four farms from one family in the area went up for auction, from 20 acres to 80 acres. Lowest was 24K an acre highest 31K an acre. It makes no sense whatsoever, three were bought by different fifth gen farmers highest was a developer. Rough ground here is 12K if it can be found. Same thing is happening in the counties around me.
There is no way the land can ever even pay for itself in a generation…no sense to it at all.

I keep saying the same thing. Land can't pay for itself by farming at these prices. Not in two generations, Doesn't make sense????. If land around my farm ever hits your low rough ground mark I'm out....with a smile.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I keep saying the same thing. Land can't pay for itself by farming at these prices. Not in two generations, Doesn't make sense????. If land around my farm ever hits your low rough ground mark I'm out....with a smile.

I just ran the numbers at that low ground price…somebody (this guy) would be retiring early.

What I don’t get about that scenario @H20fwler describes is it’s not like Ohio is the most affluent state in the country. I mean don’t get me wrong it’s not poor but it’s also not the Hamptons. Where the hell is that money coming from. Same with Indiana. Every time I see land there for sale I think who can afford to buy 80 acres for $625,000.

 

[MN Slick]

Keep in mind that covid changed & expanded the type of buyers for recreational land. It's not just hunters, but all the back to nature group that were looking to escape the cities. Then there are all the hobby farmers, extract producers for soaps & essential oils, off the grid types, etc., etc.

That's one of the reasons for the current state of rec land, more buyers than sellers. I know about 7-8 years ago the Whitetail property folks led the charge in driving up listing prices. I started seeing properties they listed at 20-30% above what you felt the area comps were at. Now all realtors are doing the same thing.

There is an old saying that money never goes the same direction always. Increasing mortgage rates may cause some to consider selling their property, but if they overpaid initially, how do they get out from under that?

I've heard the Whitetail Property folks drive up markets on more than one occasion but it doesn't make sense to me. Agents don't make money unless a property sells so why would they inflate the price? They do market properties better than other companies, especially early on. That said, if they do get 20%-30% over market on average then sign me up! I only have experience with the WP in North Mo and they won't take pie in sky listings. I've sold a farm through them in 2012 and my realtor certainly didn't want to list it 20-30% above market.

 

[letemgrow]

My uncle is building a log cabin on my place that will have utilities with a skinning shed.

I could see that adding a lot of value to vacant land that someone is wanting to flip. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a cabin, but some type of house with a utility barn would make it more appealing to a lot of buyers IMO.

As far as the land prices right now, I sure hope people are paying a good chunk of that with cash....

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I've heard the Whitetail Property folks drive up markets on more than one occasion but it doesn't make sense to me. Agents don't make money unless a property sells so why would they inflate the price? They do market properties better than other companies, especially early on. That said, if they do get 20%-30% over market on average then sign me up! I only have experience with the WP in North Mo and they won't take pie in sky listings. I've sold a farm through them in 2012 and my realtor certainly didn't want to list it 20-30% above market.

I think the criticism of these companies (other than what I mentioned already) is that they are getting more properties on the market that would otherwise go to local buyers. We probably get 20-30 letters a year from these types of realtors asking if we would be interested in selling our land.

 

[rocksnstumps]

^^^ get plenty of postcards with some sort of antler themed company logo every year. The latest letter was a bit of a stretch. I must be assigned to the senile old foggie mailing lists now that recently retired. How they want to help with that burdensome land and giving me a cash offer now and can do that dream travel instead of having to pay taxes and such and be poor.

Language must be slanted towards the widow crowd that has no clue about land values. Gee they were proud to guarantee an amount thousands less than what was paid to acquire almost 20 yrs ago. That's one way how you get a great deal on land. Try to screw the oldsters. While might actually work in another 20 yrs when I do start to go soft in the head. This outfit was from out west and land is in WI. Lotta data mining going on out there but their algorithms aren't perfect yet

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I just purchased a MN property through Whitetail Properties and I was very impressed with our realtor. Very knowledgeable willing to go the extra mile to answer questions. They are pretty popular in our area, so a lot of the land listings go through them. You will not find any fire sale pricing with them though.

The realtors in NW WI can be pretty special. Many of them put in very little effort and it is like pulling teeth to get aerial photos or any pictures that weren't taken from the road. I got a good deal on my Wisconsin place on a listing that looked really crappy. The only pictures were taken from the road, the description wasn't entirely accurate and the realtor didn't know too much. But that worked to my benefit as the recently divorced seller had no other offers and accepted my relatively low priced offer.

I would prefer to buy from crappy realtors like that since there is a better chance to score a deal, but when I sell it will be through Whitetail Properties.

 

[Tree Spud]

I've heard the Whitetail Property folks drive up markets on more than one occasion but it doesn't make sense to me. Agents don't make money unless a property sells so why would they inflate the price? They do market properties better than other companies, especially early on. That said, if they do get 20%-30% over market on average then sign me up! I only have experience with the WP in North Mo and they won't take pie in sky listings. I've sold a farm through them in 2012 and my realtor certainly didn't want to list it 20-30% above market.

Note that I started to see this 7, 8, maybe 10 years ago. This was before land prices began to rapidly escalate. Why would they escalate? I think they saw a market opportunity in what was considered low value rough, non ag land that was priced pretty pretty cheap relative to ag land. They helped to re-brand low value land into recreational land.

Was probably a good strategy as it gave them more room to negotiate above the typical comp listing price, and the final sale price was higher.

 

[gjs4]

The deer on the sign folks are a fraternity. In some areas I guess they could be decent but my experience with the vast majority has been totally lack luster. The average warm body, or cute dog, could do better for the buyer or seller in some of these hot markets. Realtors have family shrubs, not trees...they're pushing the market up to get more commission most places have enough sales they're fine with some stagnation.

 

[Bill]

I only have experience with the WP in North Mo and they won't take pie in sky listings.

I know Jeff has turned down more than one listing because the owner had high hopes.

 

[Bill]

Language must be slanted towards the widow crowd that has no clue about land values. Gee they were proud to guarantee an amount thousands less than what was paid to acquire almost 20 yrs ago. That's one way how you get a great deal on land. Try to screw the oldsters. While might actually work in another 20 yrs when I do start to go soft in the head. This outfit was from out west and land is in WI. Lotta data mining going on out there but their algorithms aren't perfect yet

I got a text from someone once wanting to buy my land. I quoted him 150% of the going price and he/she/it had the nerve to text back that my price was high and they had never heard of land going for that much. My return text was you asked me, I didn't ask you...