Locust yrs until seed production?

[Catscratch]

I fight this damn stuff all the time so I'm disappointed that I'm considering this...

I have about 10 acres that I want to convert to forest.
It's a spot that I've fought locust for a long time.
I want cool trees like Sawtooth and Chestnut.
My experience with planting lone trees is they become targets either for rubbing or browse. I want to plant too many to cage.

Here is my plan; stop fighting the locust and let them grow this summer. I'll probably prune them so that they get straight and tall. Plant my seedlings dormant next fall or spring among them.

My hope is that I can do a mass planting hidden in the locust grove without the added expense of cages and protection. Once the planted trees are big enough to stand on their own I'll go in and start clearing the locust.

My concern is letting the locust go to seed, I don't want to do that. How long does it take for a locust tree to become sexually mature? Can I use these things for a couple of yrs without adding to my seedbank?

 

[Bill]

Don't know for sure but I've seen seed pods on some very small locust.
You could let them get bushy and about 5 foot tall. Plant a seeding next to it then cut it so it falls on the seedling. Instant cage. Plant first though or your coming home bloody. :D

 

[Catscratch]

Trust me, I've lost plenty of blood to these things.
I could always do a scan for pods before they ripen. Selectively cut those trees.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Piggybacking off Bill's great idea, basal spray the locust trees and plant your seedlings right next to them. You'll be left with a thorny skeleton that may provide your seedlings some cover for a couple of years before they finally fall, but without consuming valuable nutrients and sunlight your desirable species need to thrive.

 

[yoderjac]

I don't know much about locust. A few years ago, I saw an article on Honey Locust for deer. Evidently they love the pods. I believe David Osborn sells them: http://www.wildlifegrowers.com/Honey-Locust.html

So....I wonder if it is possible to cut down whatever kind of locust you have and graft Honey Locust to it. If so, it would be beneficial to deer and any pods not eaten would produce honey locust....Just thinking out of the box....


Thanks,

Jack

 

[IkemanTx]

I don't know much about locust. A few years ago, I saw an article on Honey Locust for deer. Evidently they love the pods. I believe David Osborn sells them: http://www.wildlifegrowers.com/Honey-Locust.html

So....I wonder if it is possible to cut down whatever kind of locust you have and graft Honey Locust to it. If so, it would be beneficial to deer and any pods not eaten would produce honey locust....Just thinking out of the box....


Thanks,

Jack

Honey locust is just as invasive as the other varieties. They are the predominant locust type down here in northeast Texas, and in many areas they account for up to 80% of the early successional growth. As much as the deer love them, I don't think I'll allow any to live on my place. Also, the thorns can take out a tractor tire...


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[yoderjac]

Honey locust is just as invasive as the other varieties. They are the predominant locust type down here in northeast Texas, and in many areas they account for up to 80% of the early successional growth. As much as the deer love them, I don't think I'll allow any to live on my place. Also, the thorns can take out a tractor tire...


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I'm not bringing any locust to my property. The deer don't much use the locust pods (whatever kind they are) here. I was just thinking that if he wants to keep the locust for a purpose, he may want to convert them to a type deer use.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

I believe they are honey locust but I'm not 100%, they could be black. Which ever they are I don't want them getting away from me so any that produce pods will get killed. My hope is that they will get 6-8ft tall before producing seed. Then like suggested above I can kill them and keep the skeleton for protection.

Part of my plan is to eventually drown them out with better trees. We have a ton of locust in the open areas, none in the canopy of the oak ridges.

Thanks for the ideas guys. I'm trying to think outside of the box and work with what I've already got... to help get what I want. The more ideas the better!

 

[Redonthehead]

I'd plant 50 trees per acre of your sawtooth/chestnuts (30' x 30') and do whatever it takes to afford 5' tubes and PVC stakes.

I had been told by the NRCS a "mass planting" of trees will overwhelm deer and therefore flourish. But in my deer density, that is BS. tube 'em is the only way to go.

 

[Catscratch]

I might do tubes, but I'm already maxed out on them with other projects. I'm looking for ways to avoid spending more $$$ but I agree with you that they will probably get wiped out if I don't use them.

 

[yoderjac]

I'd plant 50 trees per acre of your sawtooth/chestnuts (30' x 30') and do whatever it takes to afford 5' tubes and PVC stakes.

I had been told by the NRCS a "mass planting" of trees will overwhelm deer and therefore flourish. But in my deer density, that is BS. tube 'em is the only way to go.

I tried the "mass planting" approach. It didn't work with chestnuts for me. What happened in my case was that deer did not seek out or kill the trees. They simply took a bite or two as they fed past. The problem is as soon as a bite takes out the central leader, I got a bush instead of a tree. I first went to tree tubes. With our population down pretty dramatically in the last couple years, I'm trying the mass planting approach again. We will see...

Thanks,

Jack

 

[j-bird]

I have read that deer will eat honey locust pods - I have never seen it. I have honey locusts and my father has black locust. Both will stump sprout like crazy. Honey locusts seem to like more course upland soils and black locusts seem to like soil with more clay in it. Honey locust has the larger thorns and the thorns on the trunk of the tree itself. I have seen folks specifically plant locust in walnut groves to promote faster and taller growth from the walnut as they try to compete for the sunlight. I know black locust are also a legume - for whatever that's worth. Deer can be pretty persistent and I don't know if your "living locust cage" idea will work or not. I know even stump sprouts of locust grow fast to where you may have to cut them back simply to keep them from shading your planted trees. I think that will be a bigger issue before worrying about them producing seed - in my opinion. What I would consider doing is actually planting your trees and then actually building cages out of cut locust branches - essentially small brushpiles with the opening in the center for your tree. If your planting that many trees You may need to consider all sorts of things to get them past your deer - if your numbers are high. Maybe plant your trees and then hinge the entire area and see what happens. I would hinge low to serve more as a blockade and not promote bedding. Deer seem to like to bed near thorny thickets in my area and seem to be able to navigate them far better than I ever expected.

 

[Bill]

Piggybacking off Bill's great idea, basal spray the locust trees and plant your seedlings right next to them. You'll be left with a thorny skeleton that may provide your seedlings some cover for a couple of years before they finally fall, but without consuming valuable nutrients and sunlight your desirable species need to thrive.

Gotta be careful planting to close to a tree treated with Tordon. If your new seeding gets into the treated trees roots it may die also. I'd want to stay at least a couple feet from the trunk.

I don't know much about locust. A few years ago, I saw an article on Honey Locust for deer. Evidently they love the pods. I believe David Osborn sells them: http://www.wildlifegrowers.com/Honey-Locust.html

So....I wonder if it is possible to cut down whatever kind of locust you have and graft Honey Locust to it. If so, it would be beneficial to deer and any pods not eaten would produce honey locust....Just thinking out of the box....


Thanks,

Jack

As Ikeman said their pretty invasive but my deer do eat the pods. I watched Does standing in a green clover plot this fall eating dry brown honey locust pods that blew off a near bye tree. I don't chase then around killing them but I wouldn't plant one. There is no way to cut one and not come away bloody. God forsaken trees really, but the deer don't seem to mind them so I leave them be.

 

[IkemanTx]

Around here a little grove can be a gold mine for the couple weeks before persimmons ripen. Especially if you get a really early cold snap.


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[Boll Weevil]

Gotta be careful planting to close to a tree treated with Tordon.

I've not used Tordon for basal spraying so can't speak to mobility among roots...only use Garlon 4 (ester). It's not supposed to be soil active and have carefully treated target stems with no ill effects to surrounding trees. If roots are intertwined I expect you could certainly have a problem.

Good point to consider.

 

[Catscratch]

I'll keep that in mind Bill. Would kind of suck to hit some trees with Tordon and come back to everything dead. Will have to look at Garlon too. These things drink gly like fertilizer if you just spray it on the foliage. I tend to cut them at ground level and paint 41% gly on the stump. Then I carry the tree part to a burn pile in a place that never intended to drive on again.
As long as I'm experimenting I might try the brushpile idea for protect on some of the sawtooths.

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[Redonthehead]

As long as I'm experimenting I might try the brushpile idea for protect on some of the sawtooths.

Maybe, but it sounds like a lot of work that will encourage rabbits that girdle your seedlings in late winter. Between deer biting off the leaders, bucks destroying them with antlers, and rabbits girdling them, I am a firm believer in 5' tree tubes. It will take years for your seedlings to grow past the danger zone, and tubes will get them there.

 

[Bill]

Maybe, but it sounds like a lot of work that will encourage rabbits that girdle your seedlings in late winter. Between deer biting off the leaders, bucks destroying them with antlers, and rabbits girdling them, I am a firm believer in 5' tree tubes. It will take years for your seedlings to grow past the danger zone, and tubes will get them there.

That's something I hadn't considered. A tangle of dead locust branches in the grass would be great rabbi-tat.

 

[Catscratch]

I don't mind wrapping them in aluminum screening to protect from rabbits. It's the 5ft cages I can't make 100's of.

I will probably make a few cages and space them throughout the acreage to get a checkerboard of good trees (and as a control to gage what my experimenting results in), try some brush piles, see how long a locust can grow without making seed, and end up make a mess of things for myself to clean up later!

 

[Catscratch]

Just read an article that stated it takes 10yrs for a honey locust to produce their first seeds. 10yrs is plenty of time to experiment or even use as quick/easy cover where I didn't have cover before.