liming timing?

[bigboreblr]

i think your doing ok. it takes time to get the pH. In NY with hard clay and a set of disc cultivators, it's about 1.5 tons per acre to get the pH up by 1. If you can get into the 6's, your doing ok. If minimal till or no till and you add all that lime, your top layer of soil will be high in pH until it can get with the lower layer of soil. So, you can be hurting your plot with "enough" lime.

AG in NY spreads lime in the winter, anytime they can get there and wont get stuck......... They even fertilize in the winter too, ontop the fertilizer they add to the planters.

 

[MRBB]

This may not be a popular opinion with some of you hardcore plotters, but for the most of us, it is just a hobby, and we enjoy doing it.

For food plotting, keep it fun, dont "math" if you dont want too. We arent trying to live off of our plots, no need for exact measurements, and amendments. Adding some lime per year is helpful, and will get you to where you need to be. Most things we plant will grow fine at 5.7-6.5, so if he added a portion every couple years, he will still be in the zone. I try to keep my plots between 6.3-6.7. I think soil tests are a good way to see what your soils are at in the beginning, then just add some of what it needs to improve your soil, then retest every 5 years or so. Now if his soils were 4.7, then I would say dump a bunch on it, to get it to where stuff will actually grow on it, but at 5.7, he can grow most food plotting plants in that with what he has now, and adding amounts each year is a good way to maintain, and slightly improve the numbers.

Now if he was farming, and dependent on the income from the land, then I would say get the numbers to were they need to be asap, and test every other year until you get the soil where you need it, and figure out the amendments needed to maintain ideal numbers. But it is a food plot, and done on spare time, and spare money, and as a hobby, which should be kept to be fun.

Dont overthink it!

yeah but if your not going to do it right and don;'t get any good results by not following the needs of the soil/seed combo
you can just be wasting your time and money!
which I doubt many feel is much fun!
which is why many experienced plotters/farmers will tell you, its better o do one plot right, rather than waste money on just poking and hoping
all the more so when soil test are so cheap to have done to let you know what you need or don't! so no need to over think things, when they will tell you what is up or not!

after all,
no one I gather likes wasting money these days or there time!
FUN yes, enjoy , its shouldn;t be all work and no play ,!~

 

[4wanderingeyes]

yeah but if your not going to do it right and don;'t get any good results by not following the needs of the soil/seed combo
you can just be wasting your time and money!
which I doubt many feel is much fun!
which is why many experienced plotters/farmers will tell you, its better o do one plot right, rather than waste money on just poking and hoping
all the more so when soil test are so cheap to have done to let you know what you need or don't! so no need to over think things, when they will tell you what is up or not!

after all,
no one I gather likes wasting money these days or there time!
FUN yes, enjoy , its shouldn;t be all work and no play ,!~

At 5.7 he should be able to grow most food plot seeds, they may not exceed their potential, but most crops will grow decently.

He had a ph of 5.7 a year ago, he added 250# last year, and is planning on adding 320 more pounds this year that is 580# on 1/3 of an acre. By the average needed inputs to raise the PH 1 point for an acre is 2000#, it only needs roughly 650# for 1/3 acre. I would say his amendments would get him in the sweet spot. No need to have an ideal 7ph, since most food plot seeds ask for 6-6.5 anyhow.

Those of us that have small food plots need to buy peletized lime, which isnt cheap, and it requires physical labor and time. Spreading it out over a couple years makes it easier. I know for the bigger plots, where you call the ag department in, and they just spread all the lime for you, and the only work you needed to do was make a phone call, then it wouldnt make sense to do half of what is needed. But for those of us that have to go to a store, pay over $300 per ton, load it into our vehicles, drive to our land, unload it, more then likely load it onto an ATV, or trailer, then fill a small spreader, then spread it 50-100 pounds at a time, it can take a solid weekend to spread a ton of lime. Some times small plots take a lot of work, much more physical labor then lare plots, because if you are doing large plots, you probably have larger equipment.

I started from scratch, with a hand garden rake and a hoe, I would have to carry everything I needed into the woods a couple hundred yards, lime, fertilizer, seed, tools, I forsure didnt do a soil test, and ammend everything as needed, and I got successful plots even then.

 

[MRBB]

At 5.7 he should be able to grow most food plot seeds, they may not exceed their potential, but most crops will grow decently.

He had a ph of 5.7 a year ago, he added 250# last year, and is planning on adding 320 more pounds this year that is 580# on 1/3 of an acre. By the average needed inputs to raise the PH 1 point for an acre is 2000#, it only needs roughly 650# for 1/3 acre. I would say his amendments would get him in the sweet spot. No need to have an ideal 7ph, since most food plot seeds ask for 6-6.5 anyhow.

Those of us that have small food plots need to buy peletized lime, which isnt cheap, and it requires physical labor and time. Spreading it out over a couple years makes it easier. I know for the bigger plots, where you call the ag department in, and they just spread all the lime for you, and the only work you needed to do was make a phone call, then it wouldnt make sense to do half of what is needed. But for those of us that have to go to a store, pay over $300 per ton, load it into our vehicles, drive to our land, unload it, more then likely load it onto an ATV, or trailer, then fill a small spreader, then spread it 50-100 pounds at a time, it can take a solid weekend to spread a ton of lime. Some times small plots take a lot of work, much more physical labor then lare plots, because if you are doing large plots, you probably have larger equipment.

I started from scratch, with a hand garden rake and a hoe, I would have to carry everything I needed into the woods a couple hundred yards, lime, fertilizer, seed, tools, I forsure didnt do a soil test, and ammend everything as needed, and I got successful plots even then.

well I also stared with a hand rake and a long walk into places,(started my first food plots back in the late 80's, and was one of Whitetail institutes first testers in my area)
, Only I wasn't very successful doing it that way, most of my hard work and efforts failed, due to poor soils
which is why I said, just making something Fun and NOT worrying about things, isn;t the smartest way to go about making a food plot
had he NOT had a soil to test to know the soil i"X" you can waste a lot of money and time doing things that maybe are needed or maybe NOT needed
which IMO will suck the fun factor out of making a food plot!

as if you do all the work, spend all the money and get piss poor results, I don;t call that fun!
I can agree its not about farming and making a living so, it shouldn;t all work and no play
but time and money will always be better spent when you THINK about things, and do all you can to be successful, and not rely on just HOPE and FUN it works out! was my point!
and in today's modern world with so many options to food plotters to be successful, its foolish IMO to just pray things work out!

 

[SD51555]

yeah but if your not going to do it right and don;'t get any good results by not following the needs of the soil/seed combo
you can just be wasting your time and money!
which I doubt many feel is much fun!
which is why many experienced plotters/farmers will tell you, its better o do one plot right, rather than waste money on just poking and hoping
all the more so when soil test are so cheap to have done to let you know what you need or don't! so no need to over think things, when they will tell you what is up or not!

after all,
no one I gather likes wasting money these days or there time!
FUN yes, enjoy , its shouldn;t be all work and no play ,!~

Excess time and money can be detrimental too. A fella rich in both might think it's a good idea to put those things to work on the soil. There are very few checkbook solutions that do the soil any favors. I'm not a fan of soil testing anymore either. Just too much bad data supporting bad decisions.

 

[yoderjac]

Excess time and money can be detrimental too. A fella rich in both might think it's a good idea to put those things to work on the soil. There are very few checkbook solutions that do the soil any favors. I'm not a fan of soil testing anymore either. Just too much bad data supporting bad decisions.

I think this is generally true. I would say that soil testing can be a valuable tool, but in the hands of the wrong person, it can result in some real bad decisions. I kind of split soil testing down the middle. I think the test results can be informative, especially for pH and lime recommendations which the average food plotter and understand and get right. As for fertilizer recommendations, I completely ignore them and think most food plotter should as well. Especially any N recommendations.

I started with a 2-bottom plow and did a lot of damage to soils that were poor to start with. I've saved thousands a year in fertilizer cost as I've learned more about soils and improving nutrient cycling over the years. Choosing the right mix of crops, mixing and rotating, tolerating weeds, and focusing on soil health have been the key for me. There has been no degradation in either my plots themselves or their use by deer since I've switched from traditional tillage and high inputs. I still do soil testing about every 5 years with my heavy clay soils for liming. Lime moves pretty slowly through my clay. My latest soil tests show higher nutrients than they did when I was using traditional tillage and spending thousands a year on fertilizer.

In general, for beginners, I would say reading forums like this and learning from the mistakes of others is a good place to start. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Don't fall for the hype of the food plot/hunting industry.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bassattackr]

It's a sliding scale for me.. What is "good enough" for me, may be beyond what others would do. Or may not be good enough to others again.

The result is what I'm looking for. Yes, you can plot on 5.6 soil pH. Is it good enough?

Only you can answer that question.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Depends on your crops, and the goals of them crops. You can plant winter rye and clover and not tell the difference in 5.7 and 6.7. Or you can try corn, and sugar beats and have very small plants at 5.7, and large plants at 6.7. If you plant for your soils, and don’t reach beyond what your soils can do, you can grow a great food plot in very poor soils.

If I didn’t sneeze and have watery eyes, give me 3 acres of ragweed, which will grow on really poor soils.

 

[yoderjac]

Depends on your crops, and the goals of them crops. You can plant winter rye and clover and not tell the difference in 5.7 and 6.7. Or you can try corn, and sugar beats and have very small plants at 5.7, and large plants at 6.7. If you plant for your soils, and don’t reach beyond what your soils can do, you can grow a great food plot in very poor soils.

If I didn’t sneeze and have watery eyes, give me 3 acres of ragweed, which will grow on really poor soils.

Which is why selecting a mix crops to fit you soils is an important component.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Which is why selecting a mix crops to fit you soils is an important component.

which is why i planted alsike, MRC, dutch white and crimson clover into already growing rye from the fall..this plot does not have to be a magazine-worthy plot and if I had more time and $$ to get more lime down and add some fertilizers, I would...but with limitations on both, I did what I could and will do more next year...for the good plots above my house, I will add some fertilizers and go with better attraction crops (perennial clovers and brassicas) as this plot matters more to me for hunting....trying to put time, effort and $$ into where it will be the most effective

 

[pilotpip]

Magazine worthy just means they paid for the picture to be in the magazine. I've got great clover growth in my plots and the last soil tests had them around 5.2pH. I'm doing what I can, when I can and in the 3 years we've owned the property the plots have gotten better every year. There are a lot of what we consider "weeds" that deer love to eat too.

One podcast I like listening to is Land and Legacy. They said something that really made sense to me. Food plots make up 5% of most peoples' properties and take up 90% of their time. I've taken that to heart and have started working on opening up the canopy in spots to get good cover, and release some of the oaks we have so they produce better when they produce. Last year was a bad one for our mast producers and my father in law learned we don't have a lot to keep the deer on the property other than about 2 acres of plot over 90 acres. Improving the other 88 acres will have a better benefit in the long run.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I also have about 2 acres of food plots, and I have decided a couple years ago, that I need to improve the rest of my land as well. One of my food plots has turned into an orchard, and one of the others got smaller and is getting a nice row of spruce trees for cover, and for security for them to trail to my orchard. I will still plant a food plot. But I just won’t need to spend as much time on it anymore. They are smaller, and the soils are amended to a decent level now.

The next 3 year I am focusing on brush, and spruce trees. Adding winter browse, and cover is the goal now.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I also have about 2 acres of food plots, and I have decided a couple years ago, that I need to improve the rest of my land as well. One of my food plots has turned into an orchard, and one of the others got smaller and is getting a nice row of spruce trees for cover, and for security for them to trail to my orchard. I will still plant a food plot. But I just won’t need to spend as much time on it anymore. They are smaller, and the soils are amended to a decent level now.

The next 3 year I am focusing on brush, and spruce trees. Adding winter browse, and cover is the goal now.

I have 15 new apple/crabs (10 planted 11/21, 5 more planted 3/22) on the upper side of the plot above my house (skinny red strip on upper field above orange triangle) and the lower plot (small orange square) is ringed with different fruit trees-red shapes around lower field (most planted march/april 2021) with 9 established pear and 6 established apple trees (thick red shape above lower field). I want my land to be a little oasis that deer can visit at any time and feel safe and get some kind of nutrition year-round. Also, there is very limited soft mast available anywhere near me, so what I will have in a few years is a different offering from what's around. I can't compete with 40 acres of beans in the summer, but when those apples/crabs ripen during bow season and those beans are yellow, I would bet I will get some traffic. I am looking at the long game right now and need to move onto thickening up the bedding area that's between the 2 plots above my house (blue rectangles)...its 2.5 acres of winterberry and other basically useless shrubs and large maples and some good oaks