Lime Question

[SD51555]

If there is need to apolgize, it would be you apologizing for making continuously contradictory statements and talking in circles.

Responding to your questions has taken an enormous amount of my time, accordingly if you continue to backtract on your own statements and question me about them in a circular fashion I will not waste my time responding to your questions.

You sir are fake news and I have already accepted your apology.

I have been 100% consistent in what I have said. It is you that has conveniently ignored specific words in my responses to try to bail yourself out of a conversation in which you find yourself neck deep. I have been absolutely clear that my position is to get your fertility right up front and manage your leachables only, after your initial build and prep.

 

[H20fwler]

For example, few “QDM” guys would put the time/energy/money into planning the vernal pools and associated habitat that I am. Not to mention, owl, duck, bat boxes, etc.

Unless they are guys from this website...then they sure would.

 

[White Birch Farm]

Ohhh...Ok!

Now, I get it, you are now advocating dumping excessive amounts of fertilizer on your plots pre-plant so you can avoid applying annual applications of fertilizer forever. Is that really your point?

Also, your now saying the first thing did you to your plots is lime them, not add gypsum (thanks for finally admitting it). Now, even though your PH is still low and your Ca and Mg cation saturation levels are not high you are saying you are only going to apply gypsum specifically to avoid using lime and a sulfur fertilizer even though they would be more beneficial (your relatively deficient PH means you are not effectively utilizing your available soil nutrients).

None of that makes any sense whatsover. Seriously, call anyone with knowldege of soil fertility and tell them that cockammy story and HONESTLY listen to what they are going to tell you.

 

[White Birch Farm]

Unless they are guys from this website...then they sure would.

Yes, like the guy who was going to dig a pit in his existing vernal pool to make it non-vernal. Lol

Even Jack, who is generally somewhat reserved couldnt bite his tongue and called him out on it!

 

[H20fwler]

I havent discussed my goals, so I am unclear what you think they are. However, I can assure you my plans are well in excess of what most people would call “QDM” goals and were created with the help of a host of qualified individuals including several that would be immediately identifiable by name in “QDM” circles.

For example, few “QDM” guys would put the time/energy/money into planning the vernal pools and associated habitat that I am. Not to mention, owl, duck, bat boxes, etc.

This has to be one of the most arrogant statements I've seen so far on this website...congrats

Yes, like the guy who was going to dig a pit in his existing vernal pool to make it non-vernal. Lol

Even Jack, who is generally somewhat reserved couldnt bite his tongue and called him out on it!

I was seriously considering putting you on the ignore list but if you are going to keep saying this stupid shit, I'm all in for the entertainment.

 

[SD51555]

Ohhh...Ok!

Now, I get it, you are now advocating dumping excessive amounts of fertilizer on your plots pre-plant so you can avoid applying annual applications of fertilizer forever. Is that really your point?

Also, your now saying the first thing did you to your plots is lime them, not add gypsum (thanks for finally admitting it). Now, even though your PH is still low and your Ca and Mg cation saturation levels are not high you are saying you are only going to apply gypsum

So dishonest.

1. Where is the cutoff for "excessive" fertilizer? It's called a "build" program.

2. Enter exhibit 79 into evidence. If I can move lime, I move gypsum with it. I'll thank you not to attack my mobility challenges on my hunting land.

 

[SD51555]

We owe it to the entire Habitat Talk community to be honest in the views and experiences we share here. Many come to learn and should be able to take away real life examples of what has worked for other members and choose what is best for them, free of any shenanigans played in an attempt to salvage a losing argument.

 

[White Birch Farm]

if you are going to keep saying this stupid shit, I'm all in for the entertainment.

Throughout this entire thread you have been the sole person who repeatedly been hostile when faced with facts that are inconvient for you. If you consider discussing posts that public available on this forum and directly responsive to your statements as “shit”, then teally should remove yourself yourself from this discussion.

To his credit, at least when SD disagrees, he is civil and continues to debate with relevant information.

 

[H20fwler]

Throughout this entire thread you have been the sole person who repeatedly been hostile when faced with facts that are inconvient for you. If you consider discussing posts that public available on this forum and directly responsive to your statements as “shit”, then teally should remove yourself yourself from this discussion.

To his credit, at least when SD disagrees, he is civil and continues to debate with relevant information.

That is exactly how you looked to me!

 

[White Birch Farm]

1. Where is the cutoff for "excessive" fertilizer?

When you apply pre-plant fertilizers at such high levels that you have zero need for any fertilizers for many years, that is excessive.

“Building” soil levels is adding more fertilizer to your soil annually then your forages consume annually and is done in deficient soils to raise the fertility levels over an extended period of time, usually several years. Certainly not at one tume application.

 

[White Birch Farm]

That is exactly how you looked to me!

Regardless of what it might look like to you in your own head, you are the only one that has engaged in direct name calling in this entire thread. That is the fact.

 

[White Birch Farm]

Second, what of my pictures and postings leads you to believe I am "constantly on the defensive" trying to fight weeds?

Ahh...your post where you state that your biggest focus is “staving off the grass invasion”. Lol

One of MY BIGGEST FOCUS in clover management is using up surplus nitrogen produced by the clover to STAVE OFF THE GRASS INVASION.

 

[yoderjac]

I agree 100%. The one point that I would add is that Deer management on the small property is significantly different than on an “Ag” sized property.

While you and I can afford a low input, natural approach and still make a meaningful difference, the same is not true on a small property where optimizing every planted acre is incrementally more advantagous.

Deer management requires scale. If you don't have sufficient scale you are not managing deer. You may be managing habitat to improve huntability of the small parcel, but is not managing deer.

As for small properties, I would contend in most cases yield is a low priority for huntability as well. Deer use of food plots during hunting season is far more related other factors like location, hunting pressure, and the availability of alternatives. While a food plot may play a role in some small property management, most will see more hunting improvement with other habitat improvements. There are some cases where quality foods may be scarce, say big woods with a poor acorn crop or a pine plantation. In these cases, any food plot will be an attractant regardless of quality because it beats the alternatives hands down. Are there some cases where maximizing yield is important? Sure, but they are the exception, not the rule.

I havent discussed my goals, so I am unclear what you think they are. However, I can assure you my plans are well in excess of what most people would call “QDM” goals and were created with the help of a host of qualified individuals including several that would be immediately identifiable by name in “QDM” circles.

For example, few “QDM” guys would put the time/energy/money into planning the vernal pools and associated habitat that I am. Not to mention, owl, duck, bat boxes, etc.

I was not addressing "your" goals. What I said was that a more appropriate sub-goal for QDM would be... Rather than maximizing whitetail forage. I was contrasting your stated objective with what a similar objective would be for QDM. I was not suggesting what addressing what you are doing. I have not idea. I was simply relating the discussing to QDM and deer management.

Thanks,

Jacck

 

[H20fwler]

Regardless of what it might look like to you in your own head, you are the only one that has engaged in direct name calling in this entire thread. That is the fact.

really

That is very liberal conspiracy theorist of you! Lol), )

All I said is your post was arrogant

 

[White Birch Farm]

Deer management requires scale. If you don't have sufficient scale you are not managing deer. You may be managing habitat to improve huntability of the small parcel, but is not managing deer.

I couldnt agree with you more! Just beware that many small property managers will immediately label you as being condescending or arrogant for actually saying it! Lol.

 

[SD51555]

You're going to get this thread locked with fabrication like this. You're trolling me and I don't appreciate it. I am trying to help guys with some simple low cost low risk tactics that can really flip their plot attraction on.

Tell us, what post number did I say this so we can all go back and see it? Or feel free to post a screen shot of it, free from the ability to edit the quote.


I'll save you the trouble. If you click that little orange arrow it will take you back to this post, #36 from Thursday night where I most certainly did not utter that profanery.

 

[H20fwler]

I think he was referring to me SD....please excuse me for getting out of hand.

 

[White Birch Farm]

All I said is your post was arrogant

If you think posting actual facts in direct response to a series of unsolicited statements directed at me is arrogant, that is a reflection on your hostility to the messanger, not the facts.

 

[White Birch Farm]

SD....I have zero idea what you are doing. However, please delete that post with the fake qoute that you attributed to me.

 

[Bill]

And here I normally just kill the grass with gly and broadcast clover seed into it.
I'm missing like 8 steps but somehow the deer eat my clover...