Lime Question

[SD51555]

I went through all of my soil test results. The soils ranged everywhere from 5.2-6.5 PH. The calcium levels ranged everywhere from severally deficient to “very high”. There was two interesting observations 1). every report recomended the addition of at least some Sulfur 2). none recomended the use of Gypsum (despite the report having a dedicated field for such a recomendation when warranted) and all but one (the 6.5PH /soybean report) recomended adding supplemental lime.

All recomendations were from nationally renowned soil laboratories.

What soil depth did you test? (like 0-6" or 0-12" etc)

 

[White Birch Farm]

What soil depth did you test? (like 0-6" or 0-12" etc)

Early ones on virgin soils were close to the 10-12” range (not always possible in all spots in my soil). All more recent ones after ammendments began are approximately 6-7”.

 

[White Birch Farm]

What soil depth did you test? (like 0-6" or 0-12" etc)

I will add, my soils have shallow frigipans. In fact where field corners cross into sections of my less desirable soil that is otherwise not farmed the effective fragipan can be within a foot or so of the surface.

 

[White Birch Farm]

This is my primary tillable soil type.

https://soilseries.sc.egov.usda.gov/OSD_Docs/C/CHALFONT.html

 

[SD51555]

What soil depth did you test? (like 0-6" or 0-12" etc)

Early ones on virgin soils were close to the 10-12” range (not always possible in all spots in my soil). All more recent ones after ammendments began are approximately 6-7”.

It’s not surprising on that test that they didn’t recommend any gypsum. You had a pH problem, and no sulfur problem at all. You’re actually quite high in S. Those levels are enough S to grow 265 bushel beans, or 615 bushel corn. I would actually question why they recommended any S at all.

Now we both know plant roots can’t reach 100% of soil particles, but 46 is above the standard 20-40 ppm any crop producer would shoot for in a fertilizer recommendation to cover crop needs even in a high yield operation.

You are absolutely correct, gypsum would do you no good. But neither would more S of any kind.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[White Birch Farm]

You had a pH problem, and no sulfur problem at all. You’re actually quite high in S. I would actually question why they recommended any S at all.

Lol...you have never even seen most of the reports. In any case, if you want to question Waters Ag as to why they make the recomendations they do, feel free to call them up and I am sure they will explain to you what you are missing. (Are you even looking at the crop they were providing that recomendation for?)

Regardless, the matter of fact is that you finally seem to agree that when soil has a low PH and needs sulfur, gypsum is not an alternative to lime....That is the point I made on the very page of this thread.

Gypsum is not an alternative to Lime. It is generally used instead to alter Ca to Mg ratios. Until the OP knows what his PH and base saturation ratios are, there is no way to know whether the use of gypsum would be warranted.

Presumably though, given his location he will need at least some meaningful applications of either calcitic or dolomitic lime. More than likey the correct application of either will preclude the need for changing Ca/Mg ratios via a secondary application of gypsum.

 

[SD51555]

Lol...you have never even seen most of the reports. In any case, if you want to question Waters Ag as to why they make the recomendations they do, feel free to call them up and I am sure they will explain to you what you are missing. (Are you even looking at the crop they were providing that recomendation for?)

Regardless, the matter of fact is that you finally seem to agree that when soil has a low PH and needs sulfur, gypsum is not an alternative to lime....That is the point I made on the very page of this thread.

I never said it was an alternative to lime. I said I put in on with lime when I need sulfur too. When I started, I had a 5.6 pH, and only 13 ppm sulfur. The only reason I had that much was because I put on AMS the previous fall when all I had time to do was a spray and pray brassica plot the weekend I closed on the property.

What crop and yield calls for over 100 lbs of sulfur? We never added organic matter mineralization to your total S either.

 

[Rit]

Imagine how much habitat work you guys could have completed if you weren’t busy flexing interwebz muscle. I created another 400 yards of edge and opened a few more canopies in the same amount of time this discussion took. The browse and cover created will far outway any foodplot value. I wonder what the hell deer did before the foodplot revolution to survive.

I didn’t maximize my small plots this past fall. No soil test, no lime, no fertilizer, no gypsom. I must be headed for QDMA purgatory. But the deer still used them. I have created so much browse on my place deer never eat my plots to the ground. If they do you have a deer density problem, a habitat issue, or both.

 

[White Birch Farm]

Imagine how much habitat work you guys could have completed if you weren’t busy flexing interwebz muscle. I created another 400 yards of edge and opened a few more canopies in the same amount of time this discussion took.

Zero need to imagine. I got more work done while also having this discussion than a lot of guys do all winter.

Here is a piece of this week’s work. (Restoring access to an early 1900s drainage ditch on a 6 acre plot that is behind the row of trees I left. Blockaded the North side of that field with the debri removed off the field edge, which used to cover to the right side of the pic.)

 

[yoderjac]

Imagine how much habitat work you guys could have completed if you weren’t busy flexing interwebz muscle. I created another 400 yards of edge and opened a few more canopies in the same amount of time this discussion took. The browse and cover created will far outway any foodplot value. I wonder what the hell deer did before the foodplot revolution to survive.

I didn’t maximize my small plots this past fall. No soil test, no lime, no fertilizer, no gypsom. I must be headed for QDMA purgatory. But the deer still used them. I have created so much browse on my place deer never eat my plots to the ground. If they do you have a deer density problem, a habitat issue, or both.

It's February! We all have our ways of curing cabin fever. Mine is growing and grafting trees under lights indoor. Others find their cabin fever outlet in other pursuits!

 

[SD51555]

Mom makes meatloaf on Saturdays. Then I played pokerstars.com with my cat all day in the basement.

 

[Rit]

Zero need to imagine. I got more work done while also having this discussion than a lot of guys do all winter.

Here is a piece of this week’s work. (Restoring access to an early 1900s drainage ditch on a 6 acre plot that is behind the row of trees I left. Blockaded the North side of that field with the debri removed off the field edge, which used to cover to the right side of the pic.)

View attachment 22694

Of course you did more in 5 days then most do all year. Whole bunch of arrogance from most of your post especially considering the company on this forum. Nice little picture of a device you need.

 

[SmallChunk]

LOL

 

[White Birch Farm]

I created another 400 yards of edge and opened a few more canopies in the same amount of time this discussion took..

Says the pot as he calls the kettle black! Lol

Nothing like a guy who makes an arrogant (by your definition) statement like the one above, which adds nothing constructive to the topic, then watching him kick and scream when that statement is proven wrong.

 

[White Birch Farm]

It's February! We all have our ways of curing cabin fever. Mine is growing and grafting trees under lights indoor. Others find their cabin fever outlet in other pursuits!

I would love to have the time to get back to grafting and growing more. Unfortunately, before I plant more pears, apples , and especially chestnut trees I am focused on improving drainage in my fields and using the material from the ditches I am creating or renovating to raise my rows for planting.

So far this winter I have added close to 1000ft on the edges of my fields that should now be well suited to plant those trees. Previously, they held enough surface watter under wet conditions that odds of things like phytothora were just way too high.

Hopefully, after this winter a lot of that work will be done, and I can back to doing more grafting, etc.

 

[Rit]

Says the pot as he calls the kettle black! Lol

Nothing like a guy who makes an arrogant statement like the one above, which adds nothing constructive to the topic, then watching him kick and scream when that statement is proven wrong.

View attachment 22699

My statement was arrogant? You proved nothing wrong. (That might be some of your problem believe it or not you are not prettier than everyone in the room) Browse is a bigger portion of a deer diet than any food plot. I didn’t claim to do more in 5 days than an entire habitat community does all winter. I alluded to what I did in the same amount of time that the discussion took place. I don’t have this unquenchable thirst to beat everyone with every post every time. But you keep doing you boo!!!

 

[White Birch Farm]

I didn’t claim to do more in 5 days than an entire habitat community does all winter.

Not a single person in this whole thread did!!

Either you didnt understand what I wrote, or your are intentionally trying to misrepresent it because you dont like the fact that, despite your claims to the contrary, I was out doing a lot of habitat work last week while still participating in this thread. My statement that I got more done than a lot of guys do all winter is absolutely true.
Meanwhile your claim that anyone said “they do more in 5 days than an entire habitat community does all winter” is 100% complete BS and what SD likes to refer to as “FAKE NEWs”.

 

[Catscratch]

So did I screw up by putting gypsum on my plots? This thread is all sorts of fun but I'm not sure if anything has been concluded. My latest test showed I was low in Ca, had a pH of 6.1, and an organic matter of 7.8%. I also have a decent amount of clay not far under the surface. I haven't sent in another test since adding lime and gypsum so I don't know what changes occurred.

 

[Rit]

Not a single person in this whole thread did!!

Either you didnt understand what I wrote, or your are intentionally trying to misrepresent it because you dont like the fact that, despite your claims to the contrary, I was out doing a lot of habitat work last week while still participating in this thread. My statement that I got more done than a lot of guys do all winter is absolutely true.
Meanwhile your claim that anyone said “they do more in 5 days than an entire habitat community does all winter” is 100% complete BS and what SD likes to refer to as “FAKE NEWs”.

Don’t back off now keyboard warrior. Those words came out of your mouth. Go back and see post #209. You stated and I quote “I got more work done while also having this discussion than most guys do all winter” Those are your words that you typed. At the time the thread was 5 days old. I didn’t misunderstand anything. That was just another attempt by you to pad your stats as a habitat god on a forum of unworthy subjects. Note you didn’t say I have done more work this habitat season than most do all winter. Even if you did do more work than most why is it even relevant? I relayed the work I completed as a comparison of time spent pounding the sand discussing different opinions. It wasn’t to show how much more work I can do than everyone else.

I won’t read or reply to any response from you so if you save 5 minutes on a reply you could probably do something amazing.

 

[White Birch Farm]

So did I screw up by putting gypsum on my plots?

You gained a benefit from the gypsum; however, lime would have been more beneficial given only the facts you provided.