Lime Question

[SD51555]

SD....I have zero idea what you are doing. However, please delete that post with the fake qoute that you attributed to me.

I have done so yes. I think we're making progress.

Now will you please delete the quote you posted that was not from me as well?

 

[White Birch Farm]

And here I normally just kill the grass with gly and broadcast clover seed into it.
I'm missing like 8 steps but somehow the deer eat my clover...

Bill,

Choosing not to take all those steps is a perfectly reasonable decision for each individual to make (like you, I do just that with a large percentage of my clover). However, stating ad nausuem that those steps are patently wasteful for people interested in maximizing their forage production just has no basis in fact.

 

[White Birch Farm]

I have done so yes. I think we're making progress.

Now will you please delete the quote you posted that was not from me as well?

What qoute would that be? I certainly never had any such intent.

 

[Kooch]

Nobody asked me. But here's what I think about this whole extremely entertaining thread.

 

[Bill]

Bill,

Choosing not to take all those steps is a perfectly reasonable decision for each individual to make (like you, I do just that with a large percentage of my clover). However, stating ad nausuem that those steps are patently wasteful for people interested in maximizing their forage production just has no basis in fact.

I didn’t ad nausuem a thing. Just stated a fact.

Here’s another fact. This thread could become real quiet, real quick.

 

[White Birch Farm]

Nobody asked me. But here's what I think about this whole extremely entertaining thread.

The real question is, did you learn anything from this thread? If yes, than at least you had fun while doing so. Lol

 

[SD51555]

What qoute would that be? I certainly never had any such intent.

This. You quoted me as having uttereds profanery of which I did not. This quote hyperlink sends you back to post #36 from Thursday night where you can see those words were never said, and the thread was never edited from it's original content. I'm referring to your post #168.



This is post #36.

 

[White Birch Farm]

I didn’t ad nausuem a thing. Just stated a fact.

Here’s another fact. This thread could become real quiet, real quick.

Bill, SDs prior posts, including those mocking the “dork” are what I was refering to. I was agreeing with your perspective.

 

[White Birch Farm]

This. You quoted me as having uttereds profanery of which I did not.

That is a real qoute from H2O (#165) How it got attributed to the wrong post, I dont know. It should be attributed correctly to him now. If you read my post, you would see that I was commending you for your continued civility.

 

[Bill]

My misread.
Still needed to point out to everyone that the thread could end.

 

[White Birch Farm]

My misread.
Still needed to point out to everyone that the thread could end.

Understand completely. I moderated and or administrated several forums similiar to this for the better part of a decade. To be honest, with the exception of a few posts, which were for the most part retracted/clarified etc, I actually think this thread was pretty civil and I am pretty aure all the participants learned at few new things.

 

[H20fwler]

I know I sure learned something...

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm not learning anything new about clover, but I AM learning that I can go do other chores for several hours and come back here to find the flames still flying. Nachos instead of popcorn this time !!! jjuuuuuusssssstttttt funnin' boys.

 

[Kooch]

Poppy talks to plants that are lacking adequate levels of sulfur, probably because there's not enough gypsum in the soil.

 

[White Birch Farm]

I'm not learning anything new about clover.

I will take one shot at changing that.

A well managed perenial clover plot can produce two to three tons of forage a year. In doing so it can consume over 200 lbs of potassium. If you are not replacing some or all of that potassium with annual or bi-annual fertilization you are heavily mining your soils. Also, with above optimal potassum soil levels being in the 300 lbs acre range, you simply cant just apply mutiple years worth of potassium all at once and just skip fertilizing for multiple years. (You theoretically “can” of course, but not if you want to keep it well maintained and producing to its potential of 2-3 tons/acre.)

 

[Bill]

Poppy talks to plants that are lacking adequate levels of sulfur, probably because there's not enough gypsum in the soil.

WTH? The worlds screwed up when someone spends the effort to make that...

 

[SD51555]

Not that I want to open this back up, but there are agronomists pushing high single application rates of potash to test the efficacy of getting to optimum base saturation immediately to facilitate better total plant nutrient uptake driven by base saturation balance. I went 800 lbs potash to try to get into that 6% range to optimize mine. When I said I earned my manganese boost, I didn't apply any. The increase in K made the manganese already in the soil "plant available."

The Ag Phd guys went as high as a single application of 1400 lbs/acre. Here's a link to the article:

http://www.agphd.com/ag-phd-newslet...ese-the-silver-bullet-for-high-yielding-corn/



As long as you're not growing in beach or blow sand, that potassium isn't going anywhere. It's as good as money in the bank. Brian and Darren actually make a half hearted joke that they feel they should be allowed to claimed banked soil K as an asset on their balance sheet. I used to be a vocal critic of heavy potash fertilization and would chew my brother's butt over it. And we argued. It wasn't until many soil work shops later that I grasped the concept of base saturation and how that order affects what's attached to soil particles. The reason I aimed for 6% was to get in that ideal range and to be able to stay in that 4-8% range for years before I'd have to worry about adding more.

A grazing deer is going to surely carry some nutrients off your plots. At the same time, that deer is also going to carry some on. Deer spend 90% of their day bedded. The 10% they are on their feet is likely going to be spent standing in your plots a good portion of that time hoovering it in on the front end, but also shooting it out the back end. So the rate of removal is at best unknown. I've got the deer poo smeared on my boots every spring walking through my plots, and I know you do to. This is a big reason I test my stuff almost every single year. I am as curious as anyone if my nutrients are leaching or being carried away. So far, I have not found that to be true, or even observed a measurable drop in K.

This is far from widely accepted science at this point. Not all ag professionals subscribe to Mulders model of nutrient synergy and antagonism. Some ag pros still believe that balance is irrelevant as long as crop removal ppm is available to plant roots. I can personally attest to this balance system working based on the result of my manganese going from 8 ppm Mn to 68 ppm Mn having applied none, but aggressively having raised my K levels.


A high rate of broadcasted potassium is really no different than banding a crop removal amount. Whether you spread 800 lbs over the entire soil surface, or you put 80 lbs in a 3" strip every 30" it's the same rate where that product actually lands.

 

[Kooch]

WTH? The worlds screwed up when someone spends the effort to make that...

Poppy is my guru.

 

[White Birch Farm]

I went through all of my soil test results. The soils ranged everywhere from 5.2-6.5 PH. The calcium levels ranged everywhere from severally deficient to “very high”. There was two interesting observations 1). every report recomended the addition of at least some Sulfur 2). none recomended the use of Gypsum (despite the report having a dedicated field for such a recomendation when warranted) and all but one (the 6.5PH /soybean report) recomended adding supplemental lime.

All recomendations were from nationally renowned soil laboratories.

 

[White Birch Farm]

I should also add, most of the reports discussed above were also reviewed by brokers who sell fertilizer/lime/gysum and while we usually develop a custom approach (based on economics) to addressing the results of each report that may differ slightly from the lab recomendations, none of them have ever recomended gypsum either.