Is there a sure way to determine if soils are well drained enough for a plot?

[BJE80]

That right there is a darn good indicator...and its not promising...at all. Sorry

I have good plots in my best drained soils. It can and is done succesfully. I just don't know about this area I want to put a plot. Like Dipper some of the things I have to deal with are.


Water in the plots after rains.

Tore up Trails

The plots can look pretty good when working on it when it is dry enough.

 

[BJE80]

Yee Haw!!!!!!!!

 

[wiscwhip]

If you are talking tree plantings, you might be in trouble. If you are talking just a plot, don't worry about it, just get something in the ground when you can and see what it does. The worst that can happen is the very low areas fill in with smartweed, and deer browse the crap out of that stuff around here.

 

[BJE80]

If you are talking tree plantings, you might be in trouble. If you are talking just a plot, don't worry about it, just get something in the ground when you can and see what it does. The worst that can happen is the very low areas fill in with smartweed, and deer browse the crap out of that stuff around here.

Those pictures are existing plots. I'm asking about an area I would have to have cleared and hire a dozer to level off so there is some money to be spent to try it.

 

[kabic]

I think if you want to spend the money it will work. Clear the trees, ditch the sides or make a water hole. Take the dirt from the ditch or water hole and add to plot area. Bring in more material (compost, manure, etc) over the next few years if needed.

Use plants that can tolerate being wet, or plant just in the fall when drier as Dipper suggests.


Alsike Clover

Alsike clover is adapted to a wide range of soil types and grows well in northern latitudes and at high
elevations. It survives severe winters and performs best where summers are cool. It grows well on soils
that are too acidic for red clover (pH < 6.0) and can tolerate more alkalinity than most clovers.
It will tolerate wetter soils better than other clovers. It prefers silty clay loams where moisture is sufficient
throughout the growing season (mean annual precipitation 18 inches or more) or can be supplied
by irrigation. Alsike clover does not tolerate droughty sites but will tolerate soils that are
completely waterlogged and will withstand spring flooding up to 6 weeks.
It is not shade tolerant

Birdsfoot Trefoil

Soils: Adapted to well-drained to somewhat poorly drained soils of medium fertility. Tolerant of drought and moderate soil acidity (pH 5.5). Birdsfoot trefoil can tolerate low oxygen levels by effectively metabolizing the ethanol produced from its roots; flooding tolerance of 20-30 days

Japanese Millet (not sure how much deer use it)

Japanese Millet Seed is commonly used for feeding ducks as this millet will grow in flooded soils or standing water. Japanese millet duck food plots should be planted before the rainy season allowing the plant to sprout and begin growing before the standing water comes in. This millet can handle standing water if the young plant doesn't become completely submerged.

Swamp plot:
http://wiredtohunt.com/2010/05/05/5-food-plots-lessons-i-learned-from-ed-spinazzola-3/

 

[BJE80]

If this works I will will kill many deer off that plot. :cool:

 

[wiscwhip]

Those pictures are existing plots. I'm asking about an area I would have to have cleared and hire a dozer to level off so there is some money to be spent to try it.

Then the conundrum there would be, is food the lowest hole in your bucket or are those dollars and acres better spent/utilized as bedding cover or as a travel zone? If it is food, would you be better off creating a large "browsing pocket" of preferred water tolerant shrubby browse species such as dogwoods, buttonbush, ninebark, etc.?

 

[tooln]

Yee Haw!!!!!!!!

I thought my trails were bad. I'm kind of in the same situation. For my plots I've hauled tons of compost to fill the low spots. I get it for free but have to load & unload by hand. To fix up my trails I got the material the township scrapes from the ditch's and used that to raise the trails and then got some crushed sandstone for the top layer. Now that I've got a tractor I plan to level the plots, fill the holes and grade them so water runs off instead of holding it. This was the reason for the box blade.

 

[BJE80]

I thought my trails were bad. I'm kind of in the same situation. For my plots I've hauled tons of compost to fill the low spots. I get it for free but have to load & unload by hand. To fix up my trails I got the material the township scrapes from the ditch's and used that to raise the trails and then got some crushed sandstone for the top layer. Now that I've got a tractor I plan to level the plots, fill the holes and grade them so water runs off instead of holding it. This was the reason for the box blade.

Yes. They are bad. And they can be real ankle busters. Once I get the trails fixed and ditched correctly I will have to stay off them till May. I have logging happening next winter (hopefully) so I plan on fixing them after then.

 

[tooln]

Yes. They are bad. And they can be real ankle busters. Once I get the trails fixed and ditched correctly I will have to stay off them till May. I have logging happening next winter (hopefully) so I plan on fixing them after then.

Who's doing your logging? Can them fixing the trail be part of it?

 

[BJE80]

Who's doing your logging? Can them fixing the trail be part of it?

Since my land will need to be done in the dead of winter and only if it is a cold winter with plenty of frost in the ground I don't think fixing the trails then is the answer. They don't log in my area unless it is frozen solid.

I'm probably going to have Whitetail Logging out of Crandon do it.

 

[wiscwhip]

A mass shrub/browse planting in an area like that would be virtually maintenance free after getting them protected long enough to survive on their own. No yearly spraying, mowing, tilling, planting, ect. like you have with a foodplot, annual or perennial. Maybe you would spread a little lime and fertilizer around the area every couple of years, but once you had thickets that could not be browsed to death, it would be basically maintenance free.

 

[BJE80]

That may just be the answer to your question. Sounds all pretty iffy to me on plotting.

Mo, I think I have mentioned this several times in this thread but plots work and work well in this area. I am running plots no problem. But, the area I am looking at are not quite as good in terms of drainage as where my plots currently are.

 

[BJE80]

A mass shrub/browse planting in an area like that would be virtually maintenance free after getting them protected long enough to survive on their own. No yearly spraying, mowing, tilling, planting, ect. like you have with a foodplot, annual or perennial. Maybe you would spread a little lime and fertilizer around the area every couple of years, but once you had thickets that could not be browsed to death, it would be basically maintenance free.

I'm sure that would attrack deer too. But to me it makes it harder to kill them in a thicket then in or near a plot.

 

[wiscwhip]

I guess when you said that it was an acre to an acre and a half I figured it was more of a food source than a kill plot due to the size. I am more used to kill plots in the range of 1/3rd to 1/2 acre. If you want to hunt over it, couldn't you just put a smaller plot on the highest ground and let the rest just grow over on its own? I would worry about compaction issues in that soil any time you were driving on it, but maybe that wouldn't be an issue? On some heavy wet clays it can be problematic.

 

[BJE80]

I guess when you said that it was an acre to an acre and a half I figured it was more of a food source than a kill plot due to the size. I am more used to kill plots in the range of 1/3rd to 1/2 acre. If you want to hunt over it, couldn't you just put a smaller plot on the highest ground and let the rest just grow over on its own? I would worry about compaction issues in that soil any time you were driving on it, but maybe that wouldn't be an issue? On some heavy wet clays it can be problematic.

I get what you are saying 100%. I would presume it would serve mutiple things. It would be hunted downwind of during the rut. Late season I would hope to Muzzle loader or gun hunt over it.

Now, lets say I went the planting route. What kind of shrups would I plant to get the same results as a food plot?

 

[ELH]

From the pictures you have posted, I would say go with a food plot. It looks to me like you have Northern Hardwoods growing in the area you are talking about. That tells me that it is not too wet to have a food plot. I know that your area has received a ton of rain the last two years. In a normal year, I bet you won't have a problem. I think having a food source in the middle of a timbered will be more beneficial than shrubs. Now if the area had Tamarack, Black Spruce, Tag Alder, Black Ash, and cattails......I would say now way. Too wet. I don't think that is the case from what I see.

 

[BJE80]

From the pictures you have posted, I would say go with a food plot. It looks to me like you have Northern Hardwoods growing in the area you are talking about. That tells me that it is not too wet to have a food plot. I know that your area has received a ton of rain the last two years. In a normal year, I bet you won't have a problem. I think having a food source in the middle of a timbered will be more beneficial than shrubs. Now if the area had Tamarack, Black Spruce, Tag Alder, Black Ash, and cattails......I would say now way. Too wet. I don't think that is the case from what I see.

Those pictures above are from my best drained soils where I already have existing plots that are doing fine. I don't have pictures of the area I want to put the plot. Yes I am an idiot. :(

It still is hardwoods. There is no tag, tamarack or cattails. But I think there is black ash. I need to get in there and look at it closer.