Interseeding success stories - what works what doesn't.

[SD51555]

Side note: I just got back into a jar of pickled green beans I had made 5 weeks ago. 2 weeks in they were ok, nothing I'd submit to the county fair. Now, they're excellent. It's got me thinking I need to revamp my green bean operation at Stab Camp. Why this matters here is, I think I'm going to alternate bean / sorghum / bean / sorghum to give my beans something to climb and feed carbon to my beans. I need more beans. Those are excellent.

I think I'm gonna intercrop them with my asparagus bed that still won't be producing next year. I need the root mass in that new garden bed too.

 

[SD51555]

How do you prevent deer from being poisoned with prussic acid?

I don't think deer will eat it when the risk of PA poisoning is high. They need to eat it when it's green and a lot of other factors align. When sorghum is still green, there's also food plots and acorns higher on their list of preferred foods. I'm aiming for November/December use out of this stuff.

 

[Foggy47]

How do you prevent deer from being poisoned with prussic acid?

From what I have read.....the prussic acid is not an issue with deer.....and it only comes into play with baled or harvested feedstuffs.....like silage. Also it does not get dry like a cornstalk....instead the stalks provides decent nutrition even into winter. Watch the video. The guys at GCC are big on this stuff for winter feed. Sounds like a crop more of us should consider.....especialy where food becomes short supply.

 

[omicron1792]

I used high end imi tolerant sorghum this year. It’s expensive, but you only need about 5lbs to the acre.

That said, I would guess 95% plus came up and did great. Sometimes good seed just works better. If throwing 150lbs of rye, use whatever. But something seeded at 5lbs/acre I use the good stuff.

 

[Foggy47]

I've been reading several descriptions of Dwarf Sorghum Sudan BMR, with the Gene 6 traits. Also watched some video on this crop. Seems to be an ideal deer food plot and screen for my purposes. The whole plant can be consumed by deer and it's got allot of biomass. I looked at the seeds offered at Green Cover, Albert Lea, Milborn, Welters, and a few more. Seems the BMR trait is needed, and the series 6 is the deal. It will not get as high as some of the other SSG's out there....but it does have better standablity and less lodging, due to its wider stalk and less height. I'm not sure where I will buy seed....but the Welter's site has a great price and sounds good to me. Very affordable seeds everywhere. I'm posting below what seems like the best one page "cliff notes version" on this crop.

BMR Gene 6 Sorghum-Sudan​

Description
Sorghum-sudangrass crosses are a warm-season, or C4, grass. Because warm-season grasses process sunlight into sugars (photosynthesis) differently than do cool-season (C3) grasses, sorghum-sudangrass:

• Must be planted after soil temperatures reach 60°F and are rising
• Grow very little at temperatures lower than 60°F
• Grow best at 77°F and higher
• Will produce a ton of silage with half the rain or irrigation needed by corn silage
After germination, sorghum-sudangrasses thrive in hot, dry weather. They die soon after a freeze. These forages produce quick tons of highly digestible (high-energy) silage or pasture; they are an excellent source of pasture for the hottest months. BMR (brown mid-rib) is a natural trait (not GMO) that produces lower levels of lignin in these plants. BMR Gene 6 is the highest BMR level, meaning that it contains the lowest level of lignin of any sorghum or sudan. This trait transforms sorghum products from heifer feed to the highest-quality dairy cow feed. All Alta and KingFisher sorghum-sudangrasses are BMR Gene 6 and are available as conventional treated (CT) and untreated (UT).
AS6402 is a brachytic dwarf, a natural (not GMO) trait that provides these plants with at least four advantages:
• Shorter residual cutting height
• Shorter space between leaves (intermodal distance)
• Shorter stalk but with more leaves, a quality improvement
• Higher tillering capacity
Management
Sorghum-sudangrass will be harvested for baleage or haylage about 45 days after planting. Grazing is usually initiated a week to 10 days earlier. KF SugarPro 55SS is mowed when it reaches a height of 38 to 40 inches.
Residue heights are also important. AS6402, a brachytic dwarf, can be mowed with a 4-inch residue, which is one reason for its popularity. Non-brachytic versions must be mowed with at least 6 inches of residue (above the second growth node) to promote rapid regrowth. Caution: Regrowth can be almost zero if the residual is too short.
Fertilizer needs are 1 to 1¼ units of nitrogen per growing day, i.e., 45 to 50 units for the first cut and 30 to 35 units for eachsubsequent cut. Potassium, phosphorous and sulfur are also needed on most farms. All fertilizer needs are the equivalent of the needs for 100-bushel corn.
Manure can be used for the original application of fertilizer; however, commercial nitrogen is the best source after a cutting. Nitrogen needs for grazed sorghum-sudangrass must be reduced proportionally so that cows can be brought in to graze earlier without danger of nitrate poisoning. Sorghum-sudangrass should not be grazed for 7-10 days after a killing frost as it takes about seven days for the prussic acid produced by the frost to dissipate.

Establishment
Sorghum-sudangrass usually emerges in about 10 days and then can grow 3 to 6 inches per day. A conventional or no-till drill isused for the seeding, and planting depth should be 1 to 1½ inches. Planting after a small grain crop (rye or triticale, for example) requires dealing with the allelopathic effects from the dying grain plants. This can be accomplished with either minimum tillage or heavy application of liquid manure.
Because no herbicides are available for sorghum-sudangrass, weed-management activities must precede planting.

Rating scale: Poor I Fair I Good I Very Good I Excellent
AS 6504
Byron's A542B
KF SugarPro 55SS
AS6402
Byron 577 DS

 

[Bowsnbucks]

FOGGY ^ ^ ^ ^ -

I don't know about prussic acid and/or nitrate poisoning. Would gene 6 sorghum-Sudan grass be a safe plot addition for deer?? We can't fence off plots to keep deer out of them after a frost (prussic acid problem). If planted here in Pa. - should we spray it before frost season comes around?? We have hot dry soil conditions at camp, and the attraction of it sounds good - but I wonder if it's more of a cattle food, and not so much for deer?? Is it high in protein??

Input from ALL is welcome.

 

[Foggy47]

FOGGY ^ ^ ^ ^ -

I don't know about prussic acid and/or nitrate poisoning. Would gene 6 sorghum-Sudan grass be a safe plot addition for deer?? We can't fence off plots to keep deer out of them after a frost (prussic acid problem). If planted here in Pa. - should we spray it before frost season comes around?? We have hot dry soil conditions at camp, and the attraction of it sounds good - but I wonder if it's more of a cattle food, and not so much for deer?? Is it high in protein??

Input from ALL is welcome.

I have no "first-hand" experience with Dwarf BMR Sorghum Sudan Grass. I have watched a Green Cover Crop video with Dale Strickler (see the video in Post #10 by SD) ......and he claims it is appealing to wildlife. What I think (hope) is that it is not very appealing until very late into the winter......when not much else is avaiable. It could then be a survival food for my deer and other wildlife.....after it filled a screen need earlier. It does have some good feed characteristics.

I have planted Sorghum Sudan Grasses (other traits) in a mix.....into my clover plots in an attempt to get some vertical cover.. They have not competed well in the summer.....but seem to come on a bit better in the fall. Tho....nothing like a pure stand would be.

I would like to try some strips of the Dwarf BMR next year. Want to get some of my large plots divided a bit. May plant some edges too as a transition area.

 

[SD51555]

I grabbed some extra pics of my dwarf BMR sorghum this weekend. It only had two extra tillers.

Lots of leaves though.

And wide.

This is my trial bed. I rolled down (with my feet) the flax between the rows, and deep mulched with wood chips. There’s also asparagus in among the sorghums, but that will have to wait until later.

The short stuff in front is WGF. Good full seed heads on that. The tall stuff is the super sugar sorghum Sudan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Foggy47]

Good pics SD. Not sure if a person should even add any of that taller Sorghum. Not much foliage up at the top of those stalks.....and just easier to break off in a wind. I think in my situation higher than 5 or 6 feet is somewhat of a waste.....given the stand-ability of those taller Sorghum's and EW.

P.S. Where do you buy seeds in 1/2 dozen quantities? lol

 

[SD51555]

Good pics SD. Not sure if a person should even add any of that taller Sorghum. Not much foliage up at the top of those stalks.....and just easier to break off in a wind. I think in my situation higher than 5 or 6 feet is somewhat of a waste.....given the stand-ability of those taller Sorghum's and EW.

P.S. Where do you buy seeds in 1/2 dozen quantities? lol

I agree on the height. 3-4’ would be all I’d want. The dwarf BMR did get to maybe 5, but all the thick cover would be below 4’.

I love the one pound bags that green cover sells. I’ll gladly pay 2-4x the 50lb bag rate to be able to try some stuff one or two pounds at a time. A big bag for me is the 5 pounders of chicory or balansa.

And if the deer don’t eat that dwarf BMR, it’s gonna leave you lots of soil armor behind and the drill should sail right thru it.


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[omicron1792]

SD, do you mow the sorghum? I did mine once this year and it tillered a lot more.

 

[omicron1792]

Also in this pic you can see where a deer ate the seed head clean off!

 

[Foggy47]

View attachment 58046
Also in this pic you can see where a deer ate the seed head clean off!

Omi....which variety are we looking at in the foreground? Is that the Dwarf BMR series 6 ? Looks "full". I seen a very large field(s) of Sorghum last week that had to average over 12 feet high. It was all planted for hunting....and the guy had many blinds located through the property. Must have been a mile square. Many acres of the stuff. Wudda liked to talked with the owner.....to hear his experience. Alas.

 

[omicron1792]

Omi....which variety are we looking at in the foreground? Is that the Dwarf BMR series 6 ? Looks "full". I seen a very large field(s) of Sorghum last week that had to average over 12 feet high. It was all planted for hunting....and the guy had many blinds located through the property. Must have been a mile square. Many acres of the stuff. Wudda liked to talked with the owner.....to hear his experience. Alas.

All of that is igrowth grain sorghum. I did mow it once so it’s all about 6-8 feet tall.

My sorghum Sudan gets tall but much leggier and thinner. If using a screen I mix some of the shorter stout stuff to keep the thinner stuff standing. This was the sorghum Sudan.



My screen of sorghum Sudan, teosinte, and sorghum.

 

[SD51555]

SD, do you mow the sorghum? I did mine once this year and it tillered a lot more.

I cut the stuff in the asparagus garden to see what would happen. I was shocked at how quickly it grew back.

I haven't had it in a food plot yet. I'm still trying to figure out if I can make white clover play with other things, or if I finally have to kill it if I'm ever going to grow anything other than clover and grass I don't want.

 

[Northwoods Whitetails]

We have an acre of milo planted in Upper Michigan. We added winter peas and sugar beets at planting. Used dual II magnum as a preemergent and it did great. Planted a month late due to no rain (late June)

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

View attachment 58050



We have an acre of milo planted in Upper Michigan. We added winter peas and sugar beets at planting. Used dual II magnum as a preemergent and it did great. Planted a month late due to no rain (late June)

How did the sugar beets and peas do growing under all of that?

 

[omicron1792]

View attachment 58050



We have an acre of milo planted in Upper Michigan. We added winter peas and sugar beets at planting. Used dual II magnum as a preemergent and it did great. Planted a month late due to no rain (late June)

How many pounds per acre? Seems the thicker you get it the less seed heads it produces. That looks great my man

 

[Northwoods Whitetails]

How did the sugar beets and peas do growing under all of that?

It’s really crappy soil and the peas struggled. I was hoping they would actually make a pea pod and peas. Similar to beans for late season food. Beets are holding their own but again, crappy clay / sand soil. If done in better ground I think it would produce a lot.
Not sure on pounds per acre. I used an old case grain drill at 7.5 in spacing and added 1 pound of beets to the Milo seed. I did the peas first.
It was more of an experiment I copied Paul Knox/Dbltrees method. I will definitely do it again. We are in 1000 acres of big woods and the Milo may become a late season draw.
It’s over seeded with rutabaga, buckwheat and rye as well

 

[omicron1792]

It’s really crappy soil and the peas struggled. I was hoping they would actually make a pea pod and peas. Similar to beans for late season food. Beets are holding their own but again, crappy clay / sand soil. If done in better ground I think it would produce a lot.
Not sure on pounds per acre. I used an old case grain drill at 7.5 in spacing and added 1 pound of beets to the Milo seed. I did the peas first.
It was more of an experiment I copied Paul Knox/Dbltrees method. I will definitely do it again. We are in 1000 acres of big woods and the Milo may become a late season draw.
It’s over seeded with rutabaga, buckwheat and rye as well

I’ve been dissapointed in my peas too. I always assumed they would just grow up the taller stuff, but I think you have to have a lot of bare dirt under there for peas to take off and produce pods. These multi cultures do a lot of good work repairing soils and controlling weeds. But they don’t allow alot of plants to reach their full potential. I think of Foggys threads and the inability to get brassicas growing in thick clover.