D
dipper
Guest
We all have our right to an opinion, and I really don't want to offend anyone. I feel this same concept applies to many aspects of our society. Including hunting, that's why I'm so against these consultants and so for information sharing, like this site. Einstein and Buddhists warn of egocentric lifestyles. I see it a ton with our friends in the city. Great people, hard working, but they are completely useless beyond anything they can pay for.
I see hunting going the same way, and that's why I fear the birth of deer consultants is just the start. But that's just my opinion.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
It amazes and yet deeply troubles me that people have become inept at doing most simple things in life, or maybe it is just that they are lazy. They will fork over piles of money to have things done that are common, routine simple tasks. Bright side is that it is easy to make money in this day and age if you are willing to work hard, then it becomes a matter of keeping the government from stealing it from you.
Bill
Administrator
Piles of money is correct. I hired a guy to update a bathroom to from a tub to a tile shower. He built a custom vanity also. Skills I don't have so I paid.
The guy didn't do plumbing. Had to change from a 1 1/2 " tub drain to a 2" shower drain. Moved the toilet 4 inches and moved the vanity drain and supply lines 6 inches. His plumbing guy quoted me $4000.00!!! I tossed him. I used expensive shark bite connectors to convert from copper to pex. Plus I bought all the tools needed to crimp pex lines, fixtures and new toilet. Did it myself for under $800. It took me about 10 hours which means a trained Plummer could have done it in 5.
The way I figure it this plumber must make more $ per hour than a surgeon.
Reagan
5 year old buck +
This is a good argument against a college education. This country has led people to believe that pile a debt and an overpriced diploma are what everyone needs. Plumbers, electricians, & machinist can set themselves up for great success if they don't buy into the college myth and debt for life.
College with a goal and a plan is a good thing. But skilled trades are more valuable than a degree in art or philosophy.
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Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
I think by "country" you mean those that run the education system.
They are building a new high school in the "largest" city next to me about 30k people. They are actually building special class rooms to add hands on curriculum for just that very purpose. Kids will be able to take high school classes that start them down the road to certain trades while still in high school. There is a shortage of all trades type people in our local area. Cant build fast enough to keep up with the demand. College is ridiculously over priced. On top of that if you are middle class and your child is not a straight 4.0 coming out of high school there is very little scholarship money available. Learned that the hard way with a freshman in college this year who was the 3rd smartest in her graduating class.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
Following the tangent this thread has taken, I honestly believe that a lost art in this country is thinking beyond today/playing the long game. If one has any truly marketable skill, isn't completely stupid, is willing to work hard and has a long term plan, the American Dream is still there to be had. The problem I've been noticing a lot more lately is not many looking past today, even fewer looking past tomorrow. Few of the younger generations have long term professional goals they are working towards. Unfortunately, for "normal" people, you almost need them to have any kind of a successful career any more these days, or get extremely lucky. The days of career success falling into "normal people's" laps seem to be over, if they ever really existed at all.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
Growing up, my mom drilled into my head from as young as I can remember, "you go to college or you are poor." I always believed that (of course there are exceptions, but I always saw them as just that...exceptions). I don't know if it's the world changing or just my mind, but the last 10 years or so, I've concluded that lesson mom pounded into my head just isn't true. I can see a big advantage to going straight from HS to the work force, IF you have a feasible long term plan. Tech school was viewed as the weak, ugly sister when I was young. Frankly, I see tech degrees being as or even more valuable these days, and at least the liberal arts type degrees being the weak, ugly sister. I still think 4 year college CAN be a great route, but I sure no longer see that as the ONLY route. The days of getting any 4 year degree out there translating into a good-great job seem to be long gone...And the debt kids are stacking up to get that lib arts degree is staggering for many.
Bill
Administrator
I've been in the college is useless camp for a long time. There are exceptions, Teachers, doctors, lawyers highly skilled professions.
My stepson is 26 going back to school for a 2 year engineering degree. I hope he is right and I am wrong. But I told him he's going to get out of school in debt with no job offers.
Manufacturing is gone in this country, who needs an associate engineer. Told him it would be better to go to a tech school for HVAC, electrical or plumbing, get a job and work towards owning his own company.
Again I hope I'm wrong. But..................
My youngest boy is a sophomore in HS. I've been drilling into his head for a long time that the only way I help with college is if his Major leads to a job. No plolitical science, marine biology, art, bla, bla, bla. Show me the money when it's over or I'm not investing.
Where we also fail our kids is not explaining money to them. It's not the first time I've done it with my youngest but we had a conversation this weekend about compound interest and the fact, that historically, reinvested dividends and interest doubles money every 7 years. I made a spread sheet that allowed us to plug in different numbers and it shows how investments grew over time. Boring topic for a teenager but he got real interested when he saw how big the numbers got when he was in his 50's by just investing and leaving it alone!
My stepson is 26 going back to school for a 2 year engineering degree. I hope he is right and I am wrong. But I told him he's going to get out of school in debt with no job offers.
Manufacturing is gone in this country, who needs an associate engineer. Told him it would be better to go to a tech school for HVAC, electrical or plumbing, get a job and work towards owning his own company.
Again I hope I'm wrong. But..................
My youngest boy is a sophomore in HS. I've been drilling into his head for a long time that the only way I help with college is if his Major leads to a job. No plolitical science, marine biology, art, bla, bla, bla. Show me the money when it's over or I'm not investing.
Where we also fail our kids is not explaining money to them. It's not the first time I've done it with my youngest but we had a conversation this weekend about compound interest and the fact, that historically, reinvested dividends and interest doubles money every 7 years. I made a spread sheet that allowed us to plug in different numbers and it shows how investments grew over time. Boring topic for a teenager but he got real interested when he saw how big the numbers got when he was in his 50's by just investing and leaving it alone!
kabic
5 year old buck +
Exactly! what career fo you want and what degree leads you there. Majoring in philosophy and hope you fall into a job is not a good plan anymore. I'm not sure it ever was.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
I have the feeling that I'm 10-20 yrs older than you. So, by the time you got out of HS that may have already been true. I had to pay my own way through. So, I went to a 2 year school to get my basics done while living at home (for as great as my mom is/was, like every other kid, I couldn't wait to get out of the house. I just couldn't justify the extra expense when I could save a ton of $$$$ by living at home for 2 more years). Anyway, they had a "career day" at UW Barron Co Campus my last year there. I talked to around 10 potential employers, as I'd already concluded that my "dream job" of working for the WI DNR would really be a sucky, low paying job, if I was even lucky enough to get a job. Still, I really enjoyed the wildlife bio field and didn't want to scrap that major. So, I asked each of the 10ish business recruiters how seriously they took having a related major, as I had no clue what I could do with the BS in Bio, emphasis on wildlife, I was working towards, outside of moving rocks on trout streams for min wage with the DNR.
That would have been back in 1985. Every recruiter told me they didn't even pay attention to what the degree was in or GPAs, as they figured that if you could get any degree and pass with any GPA that you were smart enough for them to train. All they cared was that you showed you were smart and responsible enough to make it through..........Somewhere along the lines, that's changed drastically. Supply (glut of college kids looking for limited jobs) and demand (fewer and fewer jobs for more and more college kids) has made it so that my kids' friends that graduated with a ton of debt with my kids can't seem to find jobs in the fields they were going for UNLESS they are willing to relocate and have some level of experience (many of them took unpaid internships, several even after graduating).
Bill, I applaud your efforts with the kids and agree 100% that many parents are failing at teaching their kids anything about money management. I try, but I think greatly limiting the help I've given each with college has been my primary teaching tool. By the time they're out, I've probably given each of them $5,000-$10,000 each, but I always try to make them do something for any $ I give them (sure, it's a ridiculously high hourly wage, the best they'll likely ever make per hour, if one was to calculate it), as I feel it's important that they grasp that you ultimately have to rely on yourself in this world, and spend a lot of time talking budgeting with them.
For as much as our educational system gets ripped on, 2 areas that I feel it has been an abject failure is that K-12 does next to nothing to teach kids how to make & budget $ and next to nothing on how to be a parent. Blows my mind, as those are possibly the 3 most important lessons kids need to learn.
fuldraw
5 year old buck +
Well I'm one of those licensed plumbers for 24 yrs
( only been with 2 companies
this one currently 18 years as a service plumber with this company and with a company truck the whole time ).
My father was and one of my brothers is a plumber also . Well my son always talked about being a plumber my wife and I told him he needed to go to a 4 year college/university and after that if he still wants to be a plumber I would help get him in to the Union and with a contractor. Just don't want him finding out that he hates plumbing or gets hurt and then has nothing to fall back on. Harder to go back to school later in life . He is a senior in high school this year
He was offered $92,000 in academic scholarships to a private university in Kansas City Mo .
4.2gpa and a high act score
He thinks he wants to be a CPA .
And yes we do charge a lot but that's to know the code and to hopefully install every thing properly
( lots of ways to install it and for it to work but is it to code ) we tear out a lot of so called plumbing that
Weekend Warriors or kitchen &bath companies installed that did not use licensed trades since they didn't pulled permits . it's either not working or they're trying to sell the house and the inspectors caught what was installed improperly.
And yes my gps gets me around St.Louis day
Easier than the old street maps we had to use.
For hunting I don't have a fancy GPS
But I do have two of the Bushnell back trackers
Which helps in the dark to find the stands since my son and I hunt a lot of public ground and we don't have to blaze a trail with ribbon or tac's
( only been with 2 companies
this one currently 18 years as a service plumber with this company and with a company truck the whole time ).
My father was and one of my brothers is a plumber also . Well my son always talked about being a plumber my wife and I told him he needed to go to a 4 year college/university and after that if he still wants to be a plumber I would help get him in to the Union and with a contractor. Just don't want him finding out that he hates plumbing or gets hurt and then has nothing to fall back on. Harder to go back to school later in life . He is a senior in high school this year
He was offered $92,000 in academic scholarships to a private university in Kansas City Mo .
4.2gpa and a high act score
He thinks he wants to be a CPA .
And yes we do charge a lot but that's to know the code and to hopefully install every thing properly
( lots of ways to install it and for it to work but is it to code ) we tear out a lot of so called plumbing that
Weekend Warriors or kitchen &bath companies installed that did not use licensed trades since they didn't pulled permits . it's either not working or they're trying to sell the house and the inspectors caught what was installed improperly.
And yes my gps gets me around St.Louis day
Easier than the old street maps we had to use.
For hunting I don't have a fancy GPS
But I do have two of the Bushnell back trackers
Which helps in the dark to find the stands since my son and I hunt a lot of public ground and we don't have to blaze a trail with ribbon or tac's
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I think a lot of you are making great points. I would like to claim that there is a shortage of jobs in the skilled market (compared to 20yrs ago) and for a young adult to make it in ANY field takes hard work, dedication, and smarts. The same traits (and the same kids) who would make it in a competitive machinist market, would also make it in a 4yr degree program with focus on a related job field, and vice-versa. The kid who just goes to college because they want "a degree" may lack one of those three traits and rack up lots of debt without making themselves marketable in the workforce. The same kid probably would get out-competed in the machinist or plumbing job market.
D
dipper
Guest
This is my current project. if u can build a box blind, u can lay tile. What did he quote u on the shower?
There's a lot of ways to make $, and a ton more to save it.
I really value my college experience. It cost me a lot of $, but it was one of many great investments i have made. Letting me do physical work as a hobby, which I also love.
We know a lot of well off people who just "write the check", but they could do a lot better if they knew how to do more.
We make $, and than save it not contracting out. I see it as another form of compound interest.
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Bill
Administrator
Two guys for two days $2500. I bought the tile.
I worked for a general contractor through college so I'm dangerous enough to try anything. I did my own tile bathroom floor in my starter home. For a 2 bedroom 1 bath it turned out ok. No way I was doing it this time. :)
Fulldraw,
Congratulations to your son getting $ to go.
Oh and the inspector said my plumbing was good. Except I didn't need shutoff valves below the moen shower control because it has valves in it.
Oh well I have redundancy.
I worked for a general contractor through college so I'm dangerous enough to try anything. I did my own tile bathroom floor in my starter home. For a 2 bedroom 1 bath it turned out ok. No way I was doing it this time. :)
Fulldraw,
Congratulations to your son getting $ to go.
Oh and the inspector said my plumbing was good. Except I didn't need shutoff valves below the moen shower control because it has valves in it.
Oh well I have redundancy.
chummer
5 year old buck +
I sell construction equipment and not a week goes but I don't have a customer ask me I know of any plumbers, electricians, equipment operators, masons, and more. There is a huge shortage of these workers and I am in a state that is not exactly booming. We have a never ending opening for diesel mechanics, just can't find one. These are all very good paying jobs but as the old ones retire there is no one to replace them. Kind of sad.
