Hinging beech trees?

[bigfatskinny]

J-Bird- Its been a couple years now, can you share some more of your thoughts on hinge cutting beech? Did the deer take to the beds? Did you continue to hinge beech trees?
Thanks!

 

[j-bird]

J-Bird- Its been a couple years now, can you share some more of your thoughts on hinge cutting beech? Did the deer take to the beds? Did you continue to hinge beech trees?
Thanks!

To be honest I am not 100% certain of the timeline and the like so I am not sure I can give you any facts from memory. When I have a chance I will go out and look at the locations I posted before. I will try to take pics of the same areas.

 

[j-bird]

J-Bird- Its been a couple years now, can you share some more of your thoughts on hinge cutting beech? Did the deer take to the beds? Did you continue to hinge beech trees?
Thanks!

I still have not been out to get a bunch of goo d pics, but you question did prompt a pic from this weekend. This is the same spot and tree from post #18. As you can see it has not done well. The top portion id DEAD! The bottom portion however lives on and will become a beech bush! I hope to be able ot get out to the other locations and get you a few pics of those as well......hopefully some are better than this result!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Here are some pics I took back in the late winter. These beech hinges were anywhere from 6-8 yrs old. Most of the tree stumps are still alive as bushes, but the rest of the trees beyond the hinges died out around 3-4 yr post cutting. Thought I had some wider pics of the area, but this is all I had. Still gives an idea of what they are doing 6-8 yrs out.

 

[Bill]

Here are some pics I took back in the late winter. These beech hinges were anywhere from 6-8 yrs old. Most of the tree stumps are still alive as bushes, but the rest of the trees beyond the hinges died out around 3-4 yr post cutting. Thought I had some wider pics of the area, but this is all I had. Still gives an idea of what they are doing 6-8 yrs out.

Good to see you Phil,
Hope all has been going good!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Good to see you Phil,
Hope all has been going good!

Likewise Bill...life has a way of getting a little crazy...but all is good!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

I found some pics from that particular area where those hinged beech are located. These pics are from right after cutting them in 2012

 

[Tap]

I never had the opportunity to hinge beech, because I don't have any on my property but I have hunted where there are lots of beech and I like them.

1st, the young and middle aged beech are great for stand cover. I love it when I find a suitable stand tree (of any species) that has a leafy beech growing close by. You can hide on a telephone pole of it's sirrounded by beech leaves. And the hold leaves until spring so the concealment lasts even into the end of the late late season. I would encourage lower beech cover. Cornus, (or copus?) sorry for the spelling...cut some beech to maintain leaf cover at stand height.
You can maintain prime stand cover for many years.

2nd, In some areas, beech is the number 1 scrape species. Where I hunt in Ohio, the scrape sign under beech is phenomenal. Find a beech branch hanging over a logging road and more times than not, there will be a well used, perennial scrape..

 

[phil@thesidehill]

I never had the opportunity to hinge beech, because I don't have any on my property but I have hunted where there are lots of beech and I like them.

1st, the young and middle aged beech are great for stand cover. I love it when I find a suitable stand tree (of any species) that has a leafy beech growing close by. You can hide on a telephone pole of it's sirrounded by beech leaves. And the hold leaves until spring so the concealment lasts even into the end of the late late season. I would encourage lower beech cover. Cornus, (or copus?) sorry for the spelling...cut some beech to maintain leaf cover at stand height.
You can maintain prime stand cover for many years.

2nd, In some areas, beech is the number 1 scrape species. Where I hunt in Ohio, the scrape sign under beech is phenomenal. Find a beech branch hanging over a logging road and more times than not, there will be a well used, perennial scrape..[/QUOTE

I never had the opportunity to hinge beech, because I don't have any on my property but I have hunted where there are lots of beech and I like them.

1st, the young and middle aged beech are great for stand cover. I love it when I find a suitable stand tree (of any species) that has a leafy beech growing close by. You can hide on a telephone pole of it's sirrounded by beech leaves. And the hold leaves until spring so the concealment lasts even into the end of the late late season. I would encourage lower beech cover. Cornus, (or copus?) sorry for the spelling...cut some beech to maintain leaf cover at stand height.
You can maintain prime stand cover for many years.

2nd, In some areas, beech is the number 1 scrape species. Where I hunt in Ohio, the scrape sign under beech is phenomenal. Find a beech branch hanging over a logging road and more times than not, there will be a well used, perennial scrape..

tap...I’d have to say I have a love/dislike relationship with beech (Fagus grandifolia). I won’t say hate...too strong of a word...lol.
In years when they produce mast they can be a great asset...especially in my area...we don’t have oaks. I also like the attributes you spoke of, long leaf holding cover, and bucks do tend to scrape heavily under them, and I have made quite a few awesome mock scrapes using beech limbs.

My dislike stems from their shade tolerance and and ability to proliferate and dominate mid to understory canopy levels in mature closed canopy overstory forest environments. They form dense clonal stands from the shallow fibrous rhizomal root structures. They tend to become monocultures and shade out other forms of beneficial regeneration.

Typically when large mature trees become stressed from various pests, diseases, and resource competition the roots begin to sprout prodigiously. When working in stands of mid story/understory thickets of beech I have been treating stumps with tordon or even gly to kill of the root system and prevent the root suckering from dominating the area in order to promote more beneficial regeneration for both food and cover production. I’m currently working on a TSI/forest opening project where I will be cutting a midstory stand of beech and treating the stumps a little later this summer. We have already been removing the red maple and selectively removing the sugar maple and yellow birch that were occupying the canopy in order to get more light to the forest floor.

Beech also is not a preferred browse. When I do see browsing on beech it is usually as a result of the “mineral stumping” phenomenon as described recently by Dr. Marcus Lashley. Basically when the above ground biomass of a tree (about 3-6” dbh is optimal, depending on species) is removed or otherwise altered (in some cases hinge cutting does this) the resulting sprouts coming from the stumps is super fortified with minerals/nutrients because they are attached to a root system with the resource collection capability of an established tree. The root system pushes those nutrients to those relatively few stems in an attempt to get back to the previously held canopy position. I see Deer browsing on the stump sprouts from untreated stumps, as well as the stump sprouts from hinges trees where the tree above the cut has died or has been severely retarded by the hinge cut. Meanwhile beech saplings within feet of those sprouts are untouched. Which also is a major reason why clonal beech colonies can proliferate at the level they do...Deer just don’t browse them.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Coincidentally, I was fortunate enough to harvest my first (and probably last...what an ordeal it was getting her out) PA black bear on a beech nut laden ridge back in November. That ridge also has a huge huckleberry thicket on it and the Deer, Turkey, and bear sign was insane in that ridge.

She was 203lbs est live weight and 172 dressed.

 

[Tap]

I never had the opportunity to hinge beech, because I don't have any on my property but I have hunted where there are lots of beech and I like them.

1st, the young and middle aged beech are great for stand cover. I love it when I find a suitable stand tree (of any species) that has a leafy beech growing close by. You can hide on a telephone pole of it's sirrounded by beech leaves. And the hold leaves until spring so the concealment lasts even into the end of the late late season. I would encourage lower beech cover. Cornus, (or copus?) sorry for the spelling...cut some beech to maintain leaf cover at stand height.
You can maintain prime stand cover for many years.

2nd, In some areas, beech is the number 1 scrape species. Where I hunt in Ohio, the scrape sign under beech is phenomenal. Find a beech branch hanging over a logging road and more times than not, there will be a well used, perennial scrape..[/QUOTE

I never had the opportunity to hinge beech, because I don't have any on my property but I have hunted where there are lots of beech and I like them.

1st, the young and middle aged beech are great for stand cover. I love it when I find a suitable stand tree (of any species) that has a leafy beech growing close by. You can hide on a telephone pole of it's sirrounded by beech leaves. And the hold leaves until spring so the concealment lasts even into the end of the late late season. I would encourage lower beech cover. Cornus, (or copus?) sorry for the spelling...cut some beech to maintain leaf cover at stand height.
You can maintain prime stand cover for many years.

2nd, In some areas, beech is the number 1 scrape species. Where I hunt in Ohio, the scrape sign under beech is phenomenal. Find a beech branch hanging over a logging road and more times than not, there will be a well used, perennial scrape..

tap...I’d have to say I have a love/dislike relationship with beech (Fagus grandifolia). I won’t say hate...too strong of a word...lol.
In years when they produce mast they can be a great asset...especially in my area...we don’t have oaks. I also like the attributes you spoke of, long leaf holding cover, and bucks do tend to scrape heavily under them, and I have made quite a few awesome mock scrapes using beech limbs.

My dislike stems from their shade tolerance and and ability to proliferate and dominate mid to understory canopy levels in mature closed canopy overstory forest environments. They form dense clonal stands from the shallow fibrous rhizomal root structures. They tend to become monocultures and shade out other forms of beneficial regeneration.

Typically when large mature trees become stressed from various pests, diseases, and resource competition the roots begin to sprout prodigiously. When working in stands of mid story/understory thickets of beech I have been treating stumps with tordon or even gly to kill of the root system and prevent the root suckering from dominating the area in order to promote more beneficial regeneration for both food and cover production. I’m currently working on a TSI/forest opening project where I will be cutting a midstory stand of beech and treating the stumps a little later this summer. We have already been removing the red maple and selectively removing the sugar maple and yellow birch that were occupying the canopy in order to get more light to the forest floor.

Beech also is not a preferred browse. When I do see browsing on beech it is usually as a result of the “mineral stumping” phenomenon as described recently by Dr. Marcus Lashley. Basically when the above ground biomass of a tree (about 3-6” dbh is optimal, depending on species) is removed or otherwise altered (in some cases hinge cutting does this) the resulting sprouts coming from the stumps is super fortified with minerals/nutrients because they are attached to a root system with the resource collection capability of an established tree. The root system pushes those nutrients to those relatively few stems in an attempt to get back to the previously held canopy position. I see Deer browsing on the stump sprouts from untreated stumps, as well as the stump sprouts from hinges trees where the tree above the cut has died or has been severely retarded by the hinge cut. Meanwhile beech saplings within feet of those sprouts are untouched. Which also is a major reason why clonal beech colonies can proliferate at the level they do...Deer just don’t browse them.

I didn't know the term "mineral sprouting" but I am aware of the results.
I see the same thing with hickory, elm and black walnut. Young trees are not browsed but mature ones are heavily utilized when hinged, cut, or stump sprouted.

I wasn't saying beech is entirely fantastic or that it can't become a problem. I was just mentioning 2 of it's traits that I find useful. There is a bright side to having some scattered across the land. Hey, at the rate we are losing other native tree species, we might want to preserve at least a few beech per couple acres of woods.

I do wonder which "invasive" (if that's the right term for beech) that I prefer or even how/if one will effect the other...Our woods are being swallowed-up by Japanese stilt grass. It is completely out competing all other forbs and such, even in deep shade. I wonder if a native species like beech is preferable, but then again, some things like stilt grass may still flourish even in the deep shade of beech...IDK.


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[phil@thesidehill]

I didn't know the term "mineral sprouting" but I am aware of the results.
I see the same thing with hickory, elm and black walnut. Young trees are not browsed but mature ones are heavily utilized when hinged, cut, or stump sprouted.

I wasn't saying beech is entirely fantastic or that it can't become a problem. I was just mentioning 2 of it's traits that I find useful. There is a bright side to having some scattered across the land. Hey, at the rate we are losing other native tree species, we might want to preserve at least a few beech per couple acres of woods.

I do wonder which "invasive" (if that's the right term for beech) that I prefer or even how/if one will effect the other...Our woods are being swallowed-up by Japanese stilt grass. It is completely out competing all other forbs and such, even in deep shade. I wonder if a native species like beech is preferable, but then again, some things like stilt grass may still flourish even in the deep shade of beech...IDK.


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I know you weren’t trying to “extol the virtue of beech”...lol. I didn’t take it that way at all. That wasn’t what I was trying to communicate with my overly long and rambling post.
I do like beech...I’m not out to wipe it off the landscape. I’m just try to add diversity, create wildlife habitat, and improve the forest stand of the future. I have stands of beech that won’t be touched. But beech is easily accounts for the majority of all stems on this property.

Ferns are going to be my single biggest hurdle to getting the regen I’m looking for. I’m so glad I don’t have the jap stilt grass to contend with...yet anyway.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Right with you on the ferns, Phil. Congrats on the bear !!

 

[chickenlittle]

Beech has disease problems which is why it tends to stay beech brush instead of becoming mature mast producing trees. Managing beech brush and finding productive uses for beech brush is a smart habitat work. Wonderful if you have some older trees that produce mast. Hopefully they stay healthy.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Beech has disease problems which is why it tends to stay beech brush instead of becoming mature mast producing trees. Managing beech brush and finding productive uses for beech brush is a smart habitat work. Wonderful if you have some older trees that produce mast. Hopefully they stay healthy.

Yep...seeing beech bark disease in the area.

We have a good number of beautiful mature mast producing trees, and a ton of beech brush. We keep some brush where it’s advantageous for one reason or another. But the level of profusion across the whole of the property necessitated some management and control strategies.

 

[j-bird]

I didn't know the term "mineral sprouting" but I am aware of the results.
I see the same thing with hickory, elm and black walnut. Young trees are not browsed but mature ones are heavily utilized when hinged, cut, or stump sprouted.

I wasn't saying beech is entirely fantastic or that it can't become a problem. I was just mentioning 2 of it's traits that I find useful. There is a bright side to having some scattered across the land. Hey, at the rate we are losing other native tree species, we might want to preserve at least a few beech per couple acres of woods.

I do wonder which "invasive" (if that's the right term for beech) that I prefer or even how/if one will effect the other...Our woods are being swallowed-up by Japanese stilt grass. It is completely out competing all other forbs and such, even in deep shade. I wonder if a native species like beech is preferable, but then again, some things like stilt grass may still flourish even in the deep shade of beech...IDK.


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Hey.....You.....Phil guy.....or is it "Mr Thesidehill"! This is for DEER, not whatever that black thing is! Where you been? I have seen you prowling on FB from time to time, but haven't seen you around here much lately!!!! Good to see you!!!!!!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Hey.....You.....Phil guy.....or is it "Mr Thesidehill"! This is for DEER, not whatever that black thing is! Where you been? I have seen you prowling on FB from time to time, but haven't seen you around here much lately!!!! Good to see you!!!!!!

Yeah...that’s Mister The Sidehill to you J-Bird lol! Sometimes you just end up doing different things you know. Life just took some new directions and priorities change or shift. FB just seemed to be flooded with lots of cyber friends from various forums and was an easier way to keep in touch and communicate for a while. Made some new cyber friends in the process...many of which happened to be fairly close to where I live and we’ve met up a few times and have plans for several “habitat days” at our properties. Pretty amazing how all that works. I was telling them about the “good old days” on the forums and decided I should pop and see what the hell you trouble makers have been up to! Next thing you know and I’m posting and commenting with old friends on her again!
I know...it’s a bear...my first and last...lol. Never really got into hunting them. Bought my bear tag for the first time in many years this past season...and well a target of opportunity presented itself on the opening day or our rifle season for Deer (bear runs concurrent in the first 6 days of rifle deer season in my WMU). I was hunting some big woods public land and next thing you know I was trying to get that bear out of the woods. Had to leave and hike out for some help. Shot it at 1:03PM and didn’t get it into the truck until 6:30PM....not to mention I’ll be picking up a very expensive rug in a few weeks...and they don’t even have antlers...wtf!

 

[j-bird]

Yeah...that’s Mister The Sidehill to you J-Bird lol! Sometimes you just end up doing different things you know. Life just took some new directions and priorities change or shift. FB just seemed to be flooded with lots of cyber friends from various forums and was an easier way to keep in touch and communicate for a while. Made some new cyber friends in the process...many of which happened to be fairly close to where I live and we’ve met up a few times and have plans for several “habitat days” at our properties. Pretty amazing how all that works. I was telling them about the “good old days” on the forums and decided I should pop and see what the hell you trouble makers have been up to! Next thing you know and I’m posting and commenting with old friends on her again!
I know...it’s a bear...my first and last...lol. Never really got into hunting them. Bought my bear tag for the first time in many years this past season...and well a target of opportunity presented itself on the opening day or our rifle season for Deer (bear runs concurrent in the first 6 days of rifle deer season in my WMU). I was hunting some big woods public land and next thing you know I was trying to get that bear out of the woods. Had to leave and hike out for some help. Shot it at 1:03PM and didn’t get it into the truck until 6:30PM....not to mention I’ll be picking up a very expensive rug in a few weeks...and they don’t even have antlers...wtf!

Glad to see you dropped by to "slum" for a bit! Some of the other more colorful folks from further Nort than I have taken up residence on another forum..... Let me know if you have any interest in tracking some of those folks down.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Glad to see you dropped by to "slum" for a bit! Some of the other more colorful folks from further Nort than I have taken up residence on another forum..... Let me know if you have any interest in tracking some of those folks down.

I’m pretty ghetto so I’m prone to slummin it up...lol.

You taking about QHMG forum? Or is there yet another super secret squirrel society of habitat enthusiasts? Lol. Shoot me a message...can’t hurt to check it out! Love those fellas from up Nort too!

 

[Buckly]

Roundup and a backpack sprayer will take out a lot of ferns.