Herd Doe

[alldaysit]

So, I have this ancient huge "grandma" doe, with at least three generations of doe fawns below her (alive), that tolerates my hunting property and myself very well. She's off limits and knows it. She rules the roost, is fun to see all the time, raises great fawns, and identifies danger far quicker than any other deer. I thought this was important for the herd in Northern Wisconsin.

After talking with a friend who has decades of experience hunting, he said after they started shooting those types of does, they started seeing more deer and bucks. Because those types of does run everything off.

Thinking back about it, I think I could see how this makes sense. Has anyone else experienced a herd doe like this?


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[useyourbow]

Not certain about the buck portion but we have had does that had gained way to much knowledge over the years. I have always been a proponent of shooting the younger does. Older does cycle through estrus more consistently, are more successful at raising fawns, and generally have multiple fawns versus the young ones just rearing one the first year. We primarily bow hunt and we noticed that stands that had always produced started cooling off and sightings as a whole from these stands were falling off tremendously. It was the older does that we routinely passed up. We educated them (shooting other deer out from under neath them so to speak) and they began avoiding our locations. So, long story short we broke out the ML and took a few of the old matriarchs out of the herd and it was like opening up the corral. The deer using the property went back to being the deer we knew from before.

 

[H20fwler]

I'm not in an area with very high deer numbers so I give a pass to any good breeder does anyway. We have lots of does that will throw twins and a couple every year that have triplets...the guys that hunt on one of my neighbors will shoot any buck, doe or fawn they see even during bow season so it evens out I guess.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I was always on the page of letting them pass, but once they know your pattern, they tend to piss you off a lot more. They will come out, look for you in the stand, then sit and hiss at you, giving you a 0% chance of another deer coming in. The past couple years I had to take a couple out because they knew where I would be, and would look for me. If they would just walk by, or stand in the food plot and eat, they would be safe. But when they have to tattle on me to all their friends, I take revenge.

 

[sticknstring]

I've got an 8 yr old doe on a 40 acre piece and it's the same deal. She's the boss and chases all the others off the plots. I won't shoot her because she has triplets just about every year and knows how to evade the gun hunters. It kinda sucks though because I haven't had a bachelor group to follow during the summer in 5+ years. IMO the benefits of not shooting those matriarch does outweigh any disadvantages.

 

[Barndog56]

The problem with not shooting those does is that you will never see any of her buck offspring after they get old enough and she runs them out of her home range.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I have a couple old does around my house that drop fawns right around our house where the coyotes are less likely to roam. They often have the prior years fawn or fawns with them as well. These does get a free pass since our deer numbers could stand to increase and every year they draw in nice bucks during the rut. If you want deer numbers to increase, I think even the smart old does deserve a free pass. If you have too many deer, take them out.

 

[alldaysit]

Well, it's good to know I'm not alone in this management conundrum.

I did shoot my buck last year when he chased one of her older generation of fawns through the plot. Looks like she gets the pass!!! I'm always excited to see her anyway and would have a hard time taking her out. She's added a lot of fun to our hunting parties time on our land.


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[bigbendmarine]

My experience runs a bit contrary to what's been shared thus far... but for whatever it may be worth...

I keep pressure as low as I possibly can on my place and being a long / narrow 100 acres I've focused on keeping does as content as possible to maximize traffic on my parcel (both doe and buck during rut).

Couple of years back I took a friend who'd never harvested a deer for the sole purpose of thinning the doe herd just a bit.

Sure enough oldest matriarch doe I had on my place (who I firmly believe knew she'd been getting passes) walked in with two of her younger offspring. Told friend to focus on the second biggest doe but never having shot a deer before he got the fever SO BAD I gave him hand signals to hold on shooting until he could calm his nerves. Both younger deer slowly ambled off while I worked to calm my friend down, leaving the matriarch alone in the plot.

I felt conflicted about seeing her killed, having given her numerous passes before but with friend finally calmed down I wanted him to be able to have a successful hunt and gave him a thumbs up. Don't regret helping him get his first deer / filling his freezer (and he was really appreciative about it), but her death sure seemed to put the herd on edge / high alert and seemed to push nocturnal feeding even more so than typical during season (didn't harvest any of the bucks on my hit list that year). I've had years I've killed a couple of dominant bucks on the property with far less apparent impact to the herd's nerves / sensibilities.

Sure not trying to say that the result will be the same on other parcels... again, just sharing for whatever it is worth.

 

[John-W-WI]

I was always on the page of letting them pass, but once they know your pattern, they tend to piss you off a lot more. They will come out, look for you in the stand, then sit and hiss at you, giving you a 0% chance of another deer coming in. The past couple years I had to take a couple out because they knew where I would be, and would look for me. If they would just walk by, or stand in the food plot and eat, they would be safe. But when they have to tattle on me to all their friends, I take revenge.

We shoot them if we can, but with an 11 year old as the shooter it can be hard to do. Those old girls know whats up at 200 yards. Sometimes further.

We are SUPER low impact during bow season. I would say now that we don't walk all over and over hunt stands the old girls aren't quite the issue they used to be. They used to check our stands from the furthest vantage point possible to see if we were in them.

Our farm seems to have enough good habitat/food that if we shoot one she is quickly replaced. So I'm not too worried about reducing numbers.

-John

 

[Bill]

We don't shoot many does. The neighbors seem to keep them in check. Kinda have the experience Bigend discribes. They seem to be care free. We did have one old girl a few years back that must have been present when someone shot out of a stand. Rarely get busted in this stand but this old girl looked right at it every time.

She played the head bob thing with my brother for 30 minutes until he could draw. He only shot her for that reason.
That stand is good to go again.