Hack N Squirt Gone Bad

[SwampCat]

35 acre 20 yr old oak natural regen. Hack N Squirt using Arsenal everything under 6” last summer. Almost everything now dead - the target trees and the trees that were NOT hack n squirted. Contracted with operator who has worked with commercial timber companies for 40 years. Says he has never seen that happen in 40 years of timber business

What would you do? What do you think he should do?

 

[Telemark]

Have him call his insurance and check your contract?

 

[SwampCat]

Didnt have a specific written contract with the contractor. He just provided me a quote and followed plan set by NRCS. There wasnt any mention by state, feds, contractor, or me - pertaining to worse than a complete failure. This basically set the 35 acres back 20 years.

 

[BenAllgood]

Was the ground real wet when it was applied?

 

[H20fwler]

Did they use Tordon?

 

[SwampCat]

They used Arsenal. Wouldnt have been overly wet. It was hot - low 90’s

 

[Buckly]

How big were the biggest trees that died? I assume there’s no physical evidence they hacked everything.

 

[SwampCat]

Biggest one I found is 18” hickory. A lot of ten to twelve inch oaks. No, they were not injected. The job was inspected and approved by state forester two months after completion.

 

[Buckly]

I’m wondering if it’s possible they used the wrong chemical? Just thinking out of the box. Any way to do a test of the tree roots or soil for residual chemical to see? I have no clue about that stuff but it’s a mystery.

 

[SwampCat]

I’m wondering if it’s possible they used the wrong chemical? Just thinking out of the box. Any way to do a test of the tree roots or soil for residual chemical to see? I have no clue about that stuff but it’s a mystery.

I saw Arsenal containers in their vehicle. Cant confirm they didnt use something else. This contractor treats thousands of acres each year for one of the largest commercial timber companies in the country. Tree planting, spraying, injection work, pruning, pre commercial thinning, etc. He has done this type work for 40 years.

 

[Buckly]

That’s a shame. Lots of good trees gone. As you’ve probably already researched, the only things I can come up with are travel through root grafts and or an over application of chemical that was washed out of the cuts and onto the ground with heavy rain.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m sorry to hear that! Makes a guy hesitant to ever use arsenal.

 

[SwampCat]

That’s a shame. Lots of good trees gone. As you’ve probably already researched, the only things I can come up with are travel through root grafts and or an over application of chemical that was washed out of the cuts and onto the ground with heavy rain.

I have talked to a few foresters who have seen transfer through root graphs - but on individual basis - not over the whole treatment area.

 

[River-X]

Thats too bad. Like you said, 20 years down the drain. I agree with it most likely being root transfer If the chemical was appropriate along with the rate/concentration.

 

[g squared 23]

I think they should share cost or labor to help replant oaks this fall. I dislike an open stand of oaks, so I would add in a bunch of native shrubs and turn that area into a deer paradise. It sucks but often times things happen for a reason. The sunlight hitting the area will cause an explosion of growth, and the deer activity in the area should increase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SwampCat]

I think they should share cost or labor to help replant oaks this fall. I dislike an open stand of oaks, so I would add in a bunch of native shrubs and turn that area into a deer paradise. It sucks but often times things happen for a reason. The sunlight hitting the area will cause an explosion of growth, and the deer activity in the area should increase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, if there is one positive, it is going to be an absolute jungle. You wont be able to walk through there after this summer. The dead trees that have been hack and squirted are already starting to fall - breaking at the hack point.

 

[BenAllgood]

I'd see if I could get a rep from BASF out there to look at the site.

 

[Bszweda]

Man that sucks... still don't know how just hack and squirting can kill the entire 35 acres. I could see something like an entire container spilling/ leaking into common water source that the roots use. Has the contractor offered to come out and verify the damage? I am assuming this was some sort of eqip program and you had to use a preferred vendor?

 

[SwampCat]

Man that sucks... still don't know how just hack and squirting can kill the entire 35 acres. I could see something like an entire container spilling/ leaking into common water source that the roots use. Has the contractor offered to come out and verify the damage? I am assuming this was some sort of eqip program and you had to use a preferred vendor?

He is coming out week after this week. Yes, contractor has done a lot of work on NRCS contracts and makes a living working for Weyerhauser