GrowingDeer.TV, neonics, and Lundgren

[SD51555]

I've got another ground water monitoring pipe down 8' where I want to put a pond. Been watching it to see how much soil I'm gonna have to strip away to hit ground water. It was bone dry all last year, and should have had water within 3' of the surface all year, the subsoil moisture just isn't there yet. I'm going to keep watching for one or two more years, and if that doesn't work, I've got to go to preparation H to get a pond.

 

[FarmerDan]

Aside from soil health / natural / chemically-aided AG ......

I've said for YEARS .......... Farmers do the work, and middle-men / women make the money off them. In an all-out catastrophe - natural or man-made - another "smart-phone" / "smart-gadget", or fancy loafers, jewelry, sports car .......... won't have value. But food, clean water, and shelter sure will. Just look at Ukraine for an example of what could be .......... ANYWHERE.

I'm going to "like" your reply and counter it at the same time. It's the very system of production many are questioning that makes it possible to free both financial and human capital to pursue other life-improving (and frivilous) opportunities. But, let me be quick to admit the post WWII production systems impose a lot of unpaid external costs that will be reckoned.

 

[FarmerDan]

This is where my knowledge of farming starts to fall apart. There are endless amounts of chemicals used to kill the unkillable weeds, and some of them have some wicked residuals. Some of those residuals are 2 full growing seasons. I don't know if a guy can farm with those harsh residual chems to keep the weeds down, and still be able to get a cover crop up after.

I think we are much closer to - or maybe have - reduced the use of those long-persistent herbicides. Maybe you like the replacements. Maybe not. Round-up now just glyphosate-has virtually relegated the once widely used 'zines and 'chlors to a back-up role. There's still plenty of variation on several themes. Thinking corn and soybeans, some growers simply avoid use of soil applied herbicides and do an over-the-top application of gly. Others, with a different take on weed control will do a pre-plant soil herbicide at an appropriate rate intended to reduce persistant carry over fully planning on a post application of gly. The whole subject of persistence is tricky. Some choose to work intelligently. Others not so much. YES! There is change, but when we're in the middle of the shift is hard to grasp.
https://extension.psu.edu/persistence-of-herbicides-in-soil

 

[FarmerDan]

Seems like something farmers could dip their toe in with field or portion here and there til they get comfort? A buddy of mine said he was unable to plant 10k acres this spring (out of 60k) in ND due to how wet fields were this spring. Didn't seem all that catastrophic to him with insurance. I'm sure a guy like him could dabble a bit without worry of losing the farm.

And I think it is gaining traction. I'm in Virginia. Don't shoot me when I say this - but if ag left Virginia no one in the midwest would notice. Having said that, frankly, I'm somewhat amazed at the production method shifts I've seen in the last 30-years. I know. It's a long time coming but that's the way it works. And, to be honest, it's taken some heavy government subsidies to push those changes along.

Here's another about to launch. I'm about to be a very small part of it. Some good will come from it. I just hope we're smart enough to see it. Let the debate begin!

https://vtx.vt.edu/articles/2022/09/cals-80millliondollar-grant-for-climate-change.html

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm going to "like" your reply and counter it at the same time. It's the very system of production many are questioning that makes it possible to free both financial and human capital to pursue other life-improving (and frivilous) opportunities. But, let me be quick to admit the post WWII production systems impose a lot of unpaid external costs that will be reckoned.

No "perfect" system I guess, Dan. "Miracle" chemicals, processes, automation - all have some benefits ................. and some heavy costs as well. Costs paid in health care costs, lost jobs, pollution, etc.

 

[TreeDaddy]

And I think it is gaining traction. I'm in Virginia. Don't shoot me when I say this - but if ag left Virginia no one in the midwest would notice. Having said that, frankly, I'm somewhat amazed at the production method shifts I've seen in the last 30-years. I know. It's a long time coming but that's the way it works. And, to be honest, it's taken some heavy government subsidies to push those changes along.

Here's another about to launch. I'm about to be a very small part of it. Some good will come from it. I just hope we're smart enough to see it. Let the debate begin!

https://vtx.vt.edu/articles/2022/09/cals-80millliondollar-grant-for-climate-change.html

" feed management to reduce enteric emissions?"

Really ? And destroy all entertainment at the east texas deer camp? Never!!!!!!!


bill

 

[FarmerDan]

" feed management to reduce enteric emissions?"

Really ? And destroy all entertainment at the east texas deer camp? Never!!!!!!!


bill

Not to worry! There will always be leakage...

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I was checking out Dr Lundgren's Blue Dasher farm. Why do you think he has bare soil under all his mast trees when he is supposedly a 100% no-till/ organic/ regenerative farm? Hopefully it's just part of his research and is a control. In this thread, a linked video title questions why he became a farmer, and I see in his bio that he's received $3,400,000 in grants so far. To me, that partly explains why he became a farmer. I spent some time today reading a research paper on the nic insecticides in MN's waters. They're definitely there, for varying reasons, and I agree it's noteworthy. Was hard for me to process it all, but seemed the levels were all still below thresholds, even for aquatic life. Maybe the thresholds are too high, I get it. Going to keep looking at this stuff. We as conventional farmers are told the nic treatments do wonders (help control a number of the bad bugs) and are absolutely a good thing, but I see the opposing side says we barely get any use out of them and they pollute nearly everything and kill too many of the good bugs. I see the Ag PHD guys are being praised on another thread right now for no-till etc, but know they're advocates of this chemical as well.

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You must not be a trout fisherman. Those things are killing off our macroinvertebrates at a rate of no return.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You must not be a trout fisherman. Those things are killing off our macroinvertebrates at a rate of no return.

Funny story, my wife got published in a study on trout diets in SE MN that she worked on when getting her masters degree. I shared some of the neonics stuff with her when this got posted and she in effect said "yeah, no shit dude. They are bad."

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Funny story, my wife got published in a study on trout diets in SE MN that she worked on when getting her masters degree. I shared some of the neonics stuff with her when this got posted and she in effect said "yeah, no shit dude. They are bad."

As a LONG-TIME Trout Unlimited member / secretary / director - I can say one thing for sure ......... whether it's neo-nics, mine acid drainage, acid rain, excess fertilizers, heavy silt, or other chemical pollutants -
anything that stifles or kills insect / invertibrate life will ELIMINATE ALL fish life in a given body of water. We've had streams here in Pa. that were crystal-clear - beautiful looking waters - that were as DEAD as a brick. The reason? Acid mine drainage killed all the insect life, mosses, riparian plant life ........ and consequently - no fish, even minnows were to be found after electro-shocking the streams.

If neo-nics kill insect life in any waterway - all fish will go too. Don't let clear, beautiful-looking waters fool you. If bugs can't live in it, we can't safely drink it either. The waters may harm or kill US too.