Growing Dunstans... Couple questions

[MItch24]

Hello all, new guy to the site :)
I have been following a lot of posts for a bit as I am taking the plunge and growing some Dunstans from seed. I have a couple questions before I get started.

I am starting with 140 Dunstans which have been in the fridge since October 21st.
My plan is to build a grow box setup for express 18s under 2 eight foot fluorescent fixtures on an adjustable height rack.

I planned on going directly from the 18s to the farm in early April. I'm seeing some posts about root development with the 18s and instead people are going with 1 gallon RB after the 18s. Financially that would be another $300 for me so I'm wondering if this is really needed?

I plan to plant with 5ft tubes and PVC for staking. Any help or advice is appreciated. Also anyone know where to get the pro mix in the Midwest??

 

[chickenlittle]

I've gone straight from 18s to the field a couple years ago. If you can water if needed and control weeds, that should work fine. Remove the nuts and acclimate them to the outside before planting out.

You might consider direct seeding some of the late germinating nuts. A tin can and chicken wire tube would protect the nut. You can remove the nut after the trees get 8 to 12" tall. My direct seeded Chinese chestnuts were out of 54" tubes or close to it last summer. That was with pretty good rain through the summer.

 

[H20fwler]

Welcome to the site Mitch!

Biggest thing I have found with my chestnuts is to keep them watered good that first summer. Getting them in the ground early in spring like your planning is also a good idea just be careful of late frosts.

 

[Neahawg]

Hello all, new guy to the site :)
I have been following a lot of posts for a bit as I am taking the plunge and growing some Dunstans from seed. I have a couple questions before I get started.

I am starting with 140 Dunstans which have been in the fridge since October 21st.
My plan is to build a grow box setup for express 18s under 2 eight foot fluorescent fixtures on an adjustable height rack.

I planned on going directly from the 18s to the farm in early April. I'm seeing some posts about root development with the 18s and instead people are going with 1 gallon RB after the 18s. Financially that would be another $300 for me so I'm wondering if this is really needed?

I plan to plant with 5ft tubes and PVC for staking. Any help or advice is appreciated. Also anyone know where to get the pro mix in the Midwest??

If you can water often it will work but they are quick to dry up early on. If root maker pots are a little much for you right now go to a local nursery and buy used 5 gallon smooth pots. I've bought them for less than .25 cents a piece. You will get some circling of the roots but nothing bad as they don't fill the 5 gallon pots that bad in one grouwinf season.

 

[yoderjac]

Hello all, new guy to the site :)
I have been following a lot of posts for a bit as I am taking the plunge and growing some Dunstans from seed. I have a couple questions before I get started.

I am starting with 140 Dunstans which have been in the fridge since October 21st.
My plan is to build a grow box setup for express 18s under 2 eight foot fluorescent fixtures on an adjustable height rack.

I planned on going directly from the 18s to the farm in early April. I'm seeing some posts about root development with the 18s and instead people are going with 1 gallon RB after the 18s. Financially that would be another $300 for me so I'm wondering if this is really needed?

I plan to plant with 5ft tubes and PVC for staking. Any help or advice is appreciated. Also anyone know where to get the pro mix in the Midwest??

My success at planting any tree directly from 18s has been very poor. I would not recommend going that route. If you plant to start them indoors under lights, be prepared to transplant them to at least 1 gal RB2s and keep them through the summer and plant in the fall or let them go dormant and plant them then. The 18s are good for the first 12 to 16 weeks. When I planted trees from 18s, very few survived. Those that did survive did not thrive.

I had OK results starting them early (in December, transplanting them to 1 gal RB2s early ~9 weeks), acclimating them to the outdoors in Mid-April and then planting them late April or early May. Most survived and some did thrive. Keeping them in 1 gal RB2s for the summer and planting them in the fall gave me even better results but that could be because I have such poor soil and the first growing season with care in 1 gal RB2s gave them much more development before they had to endure my conditions.

My best results were doing a second transplant into 3 gal RB2s in late spring or early summer and planting them in the fall. This thread shows that approach with pictures: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...th-rootmakers-transfered-from-old-forum.5556/

As for promix, it is a brand name. While it works very well, there are other professional mixes that work just as well. You want something that is very well drained. I've had success with Fafard 3b. Others have had success Fafard 56. You won't find professional mixes at the big box stores. You want to avoid things like miracle grow that is designed to retain moisture. The characteristics of the mix are more important than the particular brand. Here is a thread that discusses mixes along with some testing: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...gs-from-seed-transferred-from-old-forum.5571/ The thread devolves when someone misunderstands what metromix is and goes off the deep end, but if you ignore that, there is some good information on mixes.

Many nurseries and garden centers will carry Promix or some equivalent professional mix.

I would suggest buying as many 1 gal RB2 as you can comfortably afford. You don't need to have as many of them as 18 cells. Select your best trees and transplant them to the 1 gals, keep them for the summer and plant them in the fall. For any trees that don't make it into the 1 gal RB2s, follow your original plan. That will give you a basis for comparison with your soils and conditions.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[wbpdeer]

Planting directly from the rootmaker 18s can be risky depending on your summer rainfall and if you can provide supplemental watering. Two things you can do to improve the odds in your favor: 1) put down landscape fabric to prevent competition and to reduce evaporation and 2) to use moisture miser (water absorbing crystals) in the planting hole. The moisture miser will help conserve moisture during the first summer. This product is sold by many different names. I buy mine from the Wildlife Group in Alabama.

Good luck with your dunstans.

 

[MItch24]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I do plan to put down weed barrier and 5 foot tubes and water when planting. If you guys are using the 1 gallon afterwards, are you moving outdoors at this point for light? I am thinking 140 gallon RB2S would take up quite a bit of room and I would need more lights!! Even if I buy 72 of them and only transplant half of them, I wonder if I could fit 72 under my two 8 foot lights. I want the best chance of survival so I will do whatever I can to get success. Let me know what you guys do for space/light once switching to gallon trays. Thanks again for all the advice. I truly appreciate it. Also our Frost date is generally last day in April to first week in May. I would wait until that point for anything going from the 18s. I will be weed eating the 2 weekends up to the first week in May.

 

[wbpdeer]

Mitch24

If you know where you are going to plant the trees, weed eat and spray the area also. It really kills the competition and helps the fabric do its job.

Some folks that grow in 18s, move to the RBIIs and put them outside so the sunlight can grow them. Seedlings that grow under artificial light have to be slowly introduced to the sunlight first. I don't know what state you are in - but if you time it right for your area - the RBIIs can go outdoors. That is an energy bill savings.

Wayne

 

[yoderjac]

Mitch,

I can't recall your location. Here is the formula for going to 1 gal containers without extra indoor setup:

1) Determine your last threat of frost. (In my case it is April 15. After that there is less than 10% chance of a frost. ) Target that date for your transplant into 1 gal RB2s.

2) Back off that date by 12-16 weeks. That is when you want your nuts to germinate (12-16 weeks is the recommended time in 18s).

3) Back off that date by 60 to 90 days. That is when you want to begin cold stratification of your chestnuts. (You can keep them in the fridge without added moisture from when you receive them until this date.

With this approach (I've used it) you can get reasonable success. At the time you transplant your trees from 18s to 1 gal RB2s, remove the nuts. This will reduce the attraction to squirrels outside, but I'd still protect them outdoors.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MItch24]

Thanks Jack and Wayne. I will see if I can get some 1 gallon RB2S soon. How do you guys transport to your planting location? I planned on 2 pickup loads of 20 to 24 inch trees in the 18s... but if these are going to be 48 inches or so I may need my enclosed trailer! I have a 4 hour drive to the farm so I will have to come up with a plan. We have a 12 foot enclosed trailer so I'm betting I could get at least 50 of the 1 gallons in there. Now just to see if the wife leaves me when I tell her my costs have went up "slightly"!!

 

[yoderjac]

My wife hasn't left me yet after I took over the entire finished basement, but she is a saint. :D How I transport trees depends on when I'm taking them. When I have to take many 6' trees to the farm fully leafed out in the fall, I use my flatbed trailer. I built and enclosure out of 2x4s and tarps. For trees in the 3 and 4 foot class (I can even go larger if I want), I use my Honda CRV. I place 4x4s in the back and angle the containers at about 45 degrees leaning on the 4x4s. The central leaders are bents slightly against the ceiling, but for the couple hours of driving time it is no big deal. One could do the same in the bed of a truck with a cap. You could easily get 6' tree in this way in an 8' bed. I water the containers before loading them so the mix is not dry and doesn't easily fall from the containers.

When I plant trees in the winter or early spring when fully dormant, I can just transport them standing in an open truck bed.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MItch24]

Well I think I have everything ready to go. Waiting for my snow to melt in my trash can so I will have water. Do you think the lights look too low for initial germination? I wonder if I raise them 4 inches it would put out more... also for initial medium, just go with the promix BX I have or add pine nuggets?

 

[yoderjac]

The light height doesn't matter until they produce top growth. Keeping the fluorescent lights roughly 2"-3" above the tops of the trees works pretty well. That is one reason I like the Express tray 18s. Some trees will grow tall very fast and others won't. I can reorganize the cells based on tree height as needed and hang the lights at an angle keeping them approximately the same height from all trees.

I don't mix pine bark with the promix in 18s, just in the larger containers after transplant. The reason I use them is largely economics. They are inexpensive compared to promix and actually improve drainage a bit. I mix them 50/50 with the larger 1 and 3 gal RB2s but not with 18s.

Best of luck,

Jack