Folks till green wheat and clover into the ground to partially or wholly take the place of fertilizer. I am going to plant some sunflowers this spring in a 5 acre plot now growing wheat and annual rye grass. I have several choices. I can disk it in before or at the time of planting. I can spray and throw n mow. I can spray and plant with my woods seeder directly into the sprayed vegetation. Is it worth trying to utilize green manure - or just go spray now and again a couple weeks before planting and have a relatively clean field and just use straight commercial fertilizer. Is one month dead wheat provide any nutritious value to other plants?
Green Manure?
- Thread starter SwampCat
- Start date
No - straight sunflowers - which do require extra nitrogen. Dove field
Foggy47
5 year old buck +
If you have a decent clover crop your tilling under......I think you can expect about 100 # of N Credit. Not sure what the wheat might add....but it scavenges N too. Hope someone else chimes in on this.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
Holy smokes, there is a lot going on here, and there are some wires getting a bit crossed.
First, we need to define some terms and establish goals. Then we can move on to cost/benefit analysis.
Green manure, while it can contribute nitrogen, especially if a legume (e.g. clover) is used, is probably mostly used to add organic matter to the soil. In your situation, you have not planted a nitrogen fixer, so your "green manure" would be mostly for organic matter. The answer to whether or not you should disc it in lies mostly in the level of organic matter you already have in your soil in that plot. There is also the issue of nitrogen in the soil being used up by microbes while digesting the high-carbon "green manure". Even though wheat might go into the soil green, and will tend to lose nitrogen as it dries out. Same for anything, really, though more herbaceous plants will have a higher nitrogen to carbon ration, they will still tend to lose a lot of that nitrogen to the atmosphere as they dry.
If you had planted a clover species, there is still the question of whether to till(or disc) it in or just terminate the crop. This also depends mostly on the organic matter in your soil.
Probably, for you, in this exact situation, this is the best thing to do. Because your goal is a successful dove field of sunflowers, I would reckon your best bet is to terminate the plot with glyphosate soonish, and then again a week or two before you plant your sunflowers. You will probably also want to roll or lightly disc in order to knock everything down, even though the cotyledons of the sunflowers tend to have decent energy. You want a thatch that will hold back small seeds by exhausting their energy reserves while allowing larger-seeded sunflowers to break through the thatch and receive sunlight before the energy in their cotyledons runs out.
Additionally, using commercial fertilizer gives you the confidence that the field will be a success.
Near the end of the season you can reassess and evaluate whether you might want to plant a different cover crop, and maybe till it all in, pending a soil test.
First, we need to define some terms and establish goals. Then we can move on to cost/benefit analysis.
Green manure, while it can contribute nitrogen, especially if a legume (e.g. clover) is used, is probably mostly used to add organic matter to the soil. In your situation, you have not planted a nitrogen fixer, so your "green manure" would be mostly for organic matter. The answer to whether or not you should disc it in lies mostly in the level of organic matter you already have in your soil in that plot. There is also the issue of nitrogen in the soil being used up by microbes while digesting the high-carbon "green manure". Even though wheat might go into the soil green, and will tend to lose nitrogen as it dries out. Same for anything, really, though more herbaceous plants will have a higher nitrogen to carbon ration, they will still tend to lose a lot of that nitrogen to the atmosphere as they dry.
If you had planted a clover species, there is still the question of whether to till(or disc) it in or just terminate the crop. This also depends mostly on the organic matter in your soil.
Probably, for you, in this exact situation, this is the best thing to do. Because your goal is a successful dove field of sunflowers, I would reckon your best bet is to terminate the plot with glyphosate soonish, and then again a week or two before you plant your sunflowers. You will probably also want to roll or lightly disc in order to knock everything down, even though the cotyledons of the sunflowers tend to have decent energy. You want a thatch that will hold back small seeds by exhausting their energy reserves while allowing larger-seeded sunflowers to break through the thatch and receive sunlight before the energy in their cotyledons runs out.
Additionally, using commercial fertilizer gives you the confidence that the field will be a success.
Near the end of the season you can reassess and evaluate whether you might want to plant a different cover crop, and maybe till it all in, pending a soil test.
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Johnson grass is getting pretty bad and I can control it if I plant sunflowers. I worry the deer are going to get the sunflowers - I will have seven acres - but typically they get the flowers pretty quick - so I think I would still have time to come back with millet if they do. I am going to hedge my bet with 2 acres of millet and 1.5 acre milo next to the sunflowers.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I like your idea of using it for Greene manure, however, I think you can terminate it on top and let it decompose slowly without having to disk it in.
However, I don’t think Light discinf is that bad at times.
I like planting sunflowers and sorghum together. They seem to play nice. Consider using igrowth, sorghum, and Clearfield sunflowers, and Spraying imox or imazathepyr at 6 ounces an acre +2 quarts an acre gly at planting.
However, I don’t think Light discinf is that bad at times.
I like planting sunflowers and sorghum together. They seem to play nice. Consider using igrowth, sorghum, and Clearfield sunflowers, and Spraying imox or imazathepyr at 6 ounces an acre +2 quarts an acre gly at planting.
Will the igrowth sorghum (never heard of it) not be killed when I spray the clearfied sunflowers down the road. Do you spray your clearfield with imox. I have planted sunflowers before - but never clearfield - which I intend to plant this year
GoldenTriangleIL
5 year old buck +
You seemed to be knowledgeable on this subject of which I am not. I would like to get your take (hopefully not highjacking the thread) on the ideal way to utilize the "green manure" benefits of my rotation. I plant Mammoth Red Clover with my cereal grains, pea, and light radish in fall. I will terminate cereal rye in spring with clethodim after it looses attractiveness to deer and before it puts on too much growth. How and when should I terminate or incorporate the remaining red clover to get the most benefit? I don't have a drill so I have to disturb the soil to plant fall food plots. Should I spray and disc, plow or till, or some other combination. My goal is to claim some nitrogen credit from the red clover as opposed to improving organic material (if this is a trade off).
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Both are imi Herbicide tolerant. So you can use imox or imazathrpyr on then. Legumes are also naturally tolerant of these herbicides. So I use them as a nurse, crop for lots of legumes, And native grasses. This will give them a one to two month Headstart on any weeds, and it’s pretty much all I’ve ever used. You can use a second spraying , but I’ve never had to.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
I think it depends on what you want to do after this. I just learned from other posters that Cleth is probably not ideal if you are looking to terminate an entire plot, and if you are looking to terminate only the rye, you might want to just mow or crimp it in the dough stage.
You could always spray it all with a heavy dose of gly and then lightly disc to get your next crop in. But if we knew more about your plans after, I think we could come up with a better plan for you.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
Full disclosure: my knowledge is not necessarily experience. Much of what I am saying is consolidated knowledge based on the experience of others.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
I'd let the cover crop go until until the day you wanna plant, and I'd let that cover crop go as long as you can. You pick up huge amounts of nutrients in your duff in those late stages of growth, and that's going to push root mass deep in the soil as well.
Spray it earlier in the day, let it dry, and then drill into it. I think the benefits of having that duff layer on top will bring you more good than tilling it in. In the event it gets dry down there, you'll be glad you've got it. If you're just straight sunflowers, I might throw on 100 lbs of ammonium sulfate per acre to scoot by any N tie up you may get from the duff, and shoot some sulfate sulfur into your sunflowers.
Spray it earlier in the day, let it dry, and then drill into it. I think the benefits of having that duff layer on top will bring you more good than tilling it in. In the event it gets dry down there, you'll be glad you've got it. If you're just straight sunflowers, I might throw on 100 lbs of ammonium sulfate per acre to scoot by any N tie up you may get from the duff, and shoot some sulfate sulfur into your sunflowers.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I’m same. I like to drill then spray, and I like to add the plateau herbicide to gly.
I guess plateau does not have any residual?
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Yes. Has 3 month residual. But all my summer crops are tolerant of it.
Foggy47
5 year old buck +
just did a brief read on Plateau. Spendy Stuff!
I did too. Residual for some millets - I did not specifically see browntop mentioned. Since browntop is my fall back plan - the plateau would worry me a little. The clearfield approved herbicides are all a little pricey, too.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Don’t have to use the approved ones. Generic just fine. Cheap herbicides when you realize it’s 4-6oz/acre. Way cheaper than gly
