Good Soil Building Rotation

[4wanderingeyes]

Buck is correct, cow and horse manure will build your soil the fastest, and make it so you can plant corn, or soybeans into it faster. But there is down sided to cow manure, smell, and unwanted weeds. So you will need to spray it to kill weeds. As a food plotter that may be just more work, and expense to make a food plot for deer.

 

[Livesintrees]

As mentioned above. If it were me I would be going the manure route. Depending on size even having some topsoil delivered would help. I’d be trying to work on the top 4” of soil to help with moisture retention up front so I’d till it in about that deep. I think using winter rye, buckwheat etc and having some biomass to lay down each year will help with moisture retention and soil temperatures.

 

[yoderjac]

One of the best resources for soil health is "Ray the soil guy". He is a USDA/NRCS soils guy. Google him and watch a few of his videos. The water infiltration video is probably the best place to start followed by the slake demo. Both are very short and show the damage tillage causes to soils. There are lots of how-to videos there but most are aimed at farmers with large scale equipment. They are great for understanding the underlying principles. The Crimson and Camo T&M thread shows how to apply these with small equipment for food plots.

Keep in mind that raising OM is NOT the objective. It is a step in the process. Just because you raise OM quickly, does not mean you have restored the soil microbiome. Sufficient OM is a prerequisite for healthy soil, but does not restore soil health in and by itself. Time is required for the microbiology to restore the soil health. Top dressing with manure is not a bad thing if you have the time and equipment. It is a positive step. However, applying amounts large enough that tillage is required can be problematic. It may achieve increased OM in the short-term, but for long-term soil health, reduce tillage, both in depth and frequency.

Not every place is the same, but NRCS is the best place to start when it comes to soil health, and "Ray the soil guy" has a knack for taking complex soil science and discussing it in practical terms the layman can understand.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[BuckSutherland]

The benefits of one big shot of manure and the necessary tillage to incorporate it will FAR FAR FAR outweigh the negative of what tillage does to OM or additional weed pressure. If he is starting from nothing he has absolutely nothing to lose. You dont want to use horse shit or anything else that is gonna have sawdust or wood chips cause you will get carbon tie up. Find some guy that needs to clean out a cattle shed and put on 30 tons to the acre. I think most properties are set up so a guy could sneak into their plots with a small manure spreader. Really not that bad to do it with bobcat or small cart and a pitch fork either if your trails are narrow.

 

[Barndog56]

As far as clover goes, I would use medium red over white while you've still got the sandy soil. Red does much better in dry sand than white does, and puts down a much larger root system. Plant roots are what feeds the biology that will turn the organic matter into soil.

Also, when you are just beginning to work on improving soil, anything that grows is beneficial. Chances are very high that you will have stuff like marestail, pigweed, smartweed, ragweed, and lambsquarter growing amongst your plot. These are mother nature's soil builders. They will accumulate the nutrients that are deficient in your soil. Let them grow and try to use timely mowing to keep them from setting seed.

 

[Baker]

I use a rotation of sunn hemp cow peas soybeans sunflower buckwheat and milo in summer. Sometimes even throw little okra in. Follow this with elbon rye wheat radishes turnips in the fall. Roller crimp and drill into the thatch. Been working pretty good for me.

 

[Big Snow Man]

Baker that is some mass your crimping! Good job !

 

[yoderjac]

The benefits of one big shot of manure and the necessary tillage to incorporate it will FAR FAR FAR outweigh the negative of what tillage does to OM or additional weed pressure. If he is starting from nothing he has absolutely nothing to lose. You dont want to use horse shit or anything else that is gonna have sawdust or wood chips cause you will get carbon tie up. Find some guy that needs to clean out a cattle shed and put on 30 tons to the acre. I think most properties are set up so a guy could sneak into their plots with a small manure spreader. Really not that bad to do it with bobcat or small cart and a pitch fork either if your trails are narrow.

The OP should listen to Ray Archuleta at NRCS for the science as well as listening to folks with anecdotal experience and make up his mind which approach is best for him with is soils and conditions.

Baker,

Love the crimper for termination! One of the shortcomings of T&M is the Gly needed for termination. While I have not had any issues spraying for T&M, I did start having issues with Marestail when trying to grow soybeans that needed multiple applications. While I can't justify the cost of a crimper yet, it certainly is on my wish list.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I grow soybeans every year and have never applied manure to them. I can't even remember the last time I fertilized them.

 

[yoderjac]

I grow soybeans every year and have never applied manure to them. I can't even remember the last time I fertilized them.

It is amazing how different soils can be. Folks like me on marginal soils will never have the fertility of folks in the farm belt. With enough inputs, they can be quite productive, but that is far from my goal. Deer are browsers and food left in my plots at the end of the stress period that does not end up in their bellies, is not contributing to my primary deer management goal. It still helps with soil building.

A high input, maximum, yield approach is not for me. As long as I have sufficient quality deer food to cover stress periods, my food plot program is doing its primary job. If it provides attraction in the fields I target for hunting season, it is achieving its secondary goal.

As for soil building, my primary goal is to restore the damage tillage has caused to my marginal soils. With my heavy clay, some highly damaged fields still need minimum tillage (less than an inch) to break the crusting my clay often has. Some of my better fields don't require this, but the most damaged do.

When I first started to move in this more sustainable, soil health, direction, my hope was to be where you are now, growing soybeans without fertilizer. While soybeans are great nutritional deer food, they are hard to grow here with the browse pressure (candy crop) and summer weed competition. My only success with them has been RR beans with multiple applications of gly to deal with weed competition and volume to mitigate browse pressure. The frequent use of RR has advantages some noxious weeds like marestail. I'm not sure that I'll ever go back to soybeans. My use is for summer forage, not winter which is different in the north. I'm finding other crop combinations that have lower fertility requirements but still provide quality food and that compete better with weeds reducing my use of gly.

It has been, and continues to be a journey. I'm learning as I go and refining techniques. I'll never go back to traditional techniques. Lower input, more sustainable, techniques allow more money and time to be redirected to other habitat improvements without sacrificing quality deer food one bit.

Every place is different, and the details of the techniques need to be adjusted accordingly, but the concepts Ray Archuleta lays out seem to apply across the board.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I happen to be traveling today and I like to load up my phone with some whitetail related podcasts for the plane. One that I'm listening to right now is a good fit for this thread. The OP asked about building OM in clay specifically, but I really see that as one objective in a bigger picture approach. I found this to be a good introductory pod cast to the bigger picture. It shows soil health in the bigger picture context.

Here is the link for anyone interested: http://wiredtohunt.com/2019/07/19/ep-289-how-to-improve-wildlife-habitat-in-cooperation-with-nature/

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

in addition to Ray Archuletta, Gabe Brown and David Montgomery have written some good books on Soil Health

bill

 

[Scott S]

I happen to be traveling today and I like to load up my phone with some whitetail related podcasts for the plane. One that I'm listening to right now is a good fit for this thread. The OP asked about building OM in clay specifically, but I really see that as one objective in a bigger picture approach. I found this to be a good introductory pod cast to the bigger picture. It shows soil health in the bigger picture context.

Here is the link for anyone interested: http://wiredtohunt.com/2019/07/19/ep-289-how-to-improve-wildlife-habitat-in-cooperation-with-nature/

Thanks,

Jack

Jack, I love this. Can you point me towards some other whitetail/habitat podcasts you like? Thanks

 

[IkemanTx]

I followed @Baker ‘s rotation this year in a plot on sugar sand, and boy did it have a good year. Sunn hemp, sun flowers, cowpeas, determinate and indeterminate soybeans, buckwheat... it grew to chest high at the peak of the growing season.

We will be broadcasting a fall mix with Rye, Oats, Winter Peas, Crimson clover, chicory, purple top turnip, Daikon Radish, and Sugar beets over top of the current plot, then terminating every other lower width so there are still some standing beans.

I am thoroughly impressed with how 2 winters of heavy Rye plots have increased water holding capacity on this sand. A few more years and I expect it will be significantly better soil than the pasture beside it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, I love this. Can you point me towards some other whitetail/habitat podcasts you like? Thanks

Scott,

I don't listen to podcasts often. I typically load a few up with interesting titles when I'm flying for the trip. I just happened to be flying on vacation last week and am returning today. I think I posted this one from the trip down on another thread: https://wiredtohunt.com/2018/06/20/...ve-bartyllas-habitat-management-philosophies/. It is focused more on guys with small properties who are trying to improve the hunting.

While no two managers align perfectly, I'm in general agreement with both of these podcasts. There is a lot of crap out there but these are good ones. while I really love this forum for steel sharpening steel, some folks are more aural learners.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[swat1018]

The OP should listen to Ray Archuleta at NRCS for the science as well as listening to folks with anecdotal experience and make up his mind which approach is best for him with is soils and conditions.

Baker,

Love the crimper for termination! One of the shortcomings of T&M is the Gly needed for termination. While I have not had any issues spraying for T&M, I did start having issues with Marestail when trying to grow soybeans that needed multiple applications. While I can't justify the cost of a crimper yet, it certainly is on my wish list.

Thanks,

Jack

Could it be the low rates of Gly you use to "set back" your clover that causes resistance? Many farmers in the midwest that didn't use Gly and other chemicals properly have caused this problem for us all...

 

[yoderjac]

Could it be the low rates of Gly you use to "set back" your clover that causes resistance? Many farmers in the midwest that didn't use Gly and other chemicals properly have caused this problem for us all...

Nope. Marestail has a natural resistance and I don't have an issue with it in my clover fields. It is only in the soybean fields. It was evidently in our soil bank in general. After a pine thinning and controlled burn released it in the thinned pines, it went to seed and went everywhere. Our nice clean soybean fields got hit. Then, the repeated use of gly in the next years beans favored the marestail even more.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Scott S]

Scott,

I don't listen to podcasts often. I typically load a few up with interesting titles when I'm flying for the trip. I just happened to be flying on vacation last week and am returning today. I think I posted this one from the trip down on another thread: https://wiredtohunt.com/2018/06/20/...ve-bartyllas-habitat-management-philosophies/. It is focused more on guys with small properties who are trying to improve the hunting.

While no two managers align perfectly, I'm in general agreement with both of these podcasts. There is a lot of crap out there but these are good ones. while I really love this forum for steel sharpening steel, some folks are more aural learners.

Thanks,

Jack

Perfect. Thanks, Jack. I love this place too, and I personally retain information better when I read it, but I listen to podcasts at my desk at work. I can only get away with reading HT at work so much before my boss catches on and lights me on fire.

 

[yoderjac]

Perfect. Thanks, Jack. I love this place too, and I personally retain information better when I read it, but I listen to podcasts at my desk at work. I can only get away with reading HT at work so much before my boss catches on and lights me on fire.

If you are looking for good science based research, you can't beat the podcasts at MSU deer lab. These guys do a great job of taking some of the latest science based research related to deer management and presenting it in terms a layman can understand. They don't dumb it down too much and often use terms of art, but always explain them well. The average guy can walk away with a pretty good understanding of what the research conclusions were and why. While some of the research they present doesn't always have a direct application that you can use, it is always interesting. Often there is a direct application. https://extension.msstate.edu/shows/deer-university

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Scott S]

If you are looking for good science based research, you can't beat the podcasts at MSU deer lab. These guys do a great job of taking some of the latest science based research related to deer management and presenting it in terms a layman can understand. They don't dumb it down too much and often use terms of art, but always explain them well. The average guy can walk away with a pretty good understanding of what the research conclusions were and why. While some of the research they present doesn't always have a direct application that you can use, it is always interesting. Often there is a direct application. https://extension.msstate.edu/shows/deer-university

Thanks,

Jack

Excellent. I have to imagine this will keep me entertained for a while. I appreciate your time as always, Jack.