Germinating Persimmon seeds

[Cap'n]

I was having trouble getting persimmon seeds to germinate in RM18’s so I decided to try these little to-go trays from restaurants. Well they are working out great. I put the media in and got it a little wet, then layer the seed in and covered them with about a 1/4 of media and closed the lid. It self watered from condensation and in about a month I had a tray full of seedlings.

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[j-bird]

Old timers here will tell you the only way to get a persimmon seed to grow is to get the seed out of coon poop! I have never tried growing them from seed...but glad to see you have some success.

 

[yoderjac]

I germinated many hundreds of persimmon seeds. It made no sense to waste 18s on seeds that don't germinate. I took aluminum tins, cut out much of the bottom, and lined it with porous shelf-liner from Lowes. I also tried taping putting the shelf-liner in the top of laundry baskets. I germinated hundreds of seeds this way. They do need to be cold stratified and scarification helps with persimmon seeds. That is what J-bird is making reference to. I simply glued sand paper to the inside of a 5 gallon bucket and tumbled the seeds in there to help scarify them. I had very high germination rates.

The issue with your trays will be the roots. You've got to move them to 18s before the roots start j-hooking or following the container horizontally. That is why I used the shelf-liner with holes. As soon as the persimmon forms a loop (before it picks up the seed head), I would transplant into and 18. I had so many seeds germinate, I ran out of 18 and made some DIY containers. Here is the thread: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...ntainers-diy-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5542/

Thanks,

Jack

 

[IkemanTx]

They grow like weeds here.
I pick rotten persimmons off the ground, and tuck them an inch or two into the ground in an area that holds moisture well. I’ve been doing this for several years on public land. Anywhere I think a good food source might be well situated gets some kind of mast tree propagation. I’m like the Johnny Appleseed of public land around here.

The idea of pulling them from scat works as well... I just don’t typically have gloves with me in the field. You can scarify them on an abrasive rock or sandpaper and achieve the same effect.


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[TreeDaddy]

My attempts at germination/propagation were not particularly satisfying due to multiple reasons

Seemed far more efficient ( both time and money) to plant bare root seedlings

i planted >1000 this past winter/spring with a wolverine tree spade

i only labeled them with orange surveyor flags and no mats/cages,etc

Thus far , they seem browse resistant and are exhibiting good top growth

Time will tell

bill

 

[Cap'n]

That’s some good info.
I kind of had the persimmon on the back burner because I was busy with Chestnuts, oaks and Chinkapin and a flooded vegetable garden so far.
I stratified them but they weren’t scarified. My first stab at it was not good but these take home boxes got me going. The roots on some were running along the bottom of the tray and 2 1/2 inches long but I just pointed those to the corner of the RM and hope that gets the job done.

 

[yoderjac]

That’s some good info.
I kind of had the persimmon on the back burner because I was busy with Chestnuts, oaks and Chinkapin and a flooded vegetable garden so far.
I stratified them but they weren’t scarified. My first stab at it was not good but these take home boxes got me going. The roots on some were running along the bottom of the tray and 2 1/2 inches long but I just pointed those to the corner of the RM and hope that gets the job done.

My guess is that you will be fine.

 

[Brush farmer]

I’ve got a decent crop of persimmons so far this year. I took seed from persimmons right at the mushy stage and cleaned them well. I stored them in damp paper towel in the fridge crisper until late Feb / early March (after the worst freezes have passed for the year). I planted the seed in my nursery bed about an inch deep and let nature take its coarse. I wound up getting a fairly high germination with no more work than listed above.
I have started persimmons indoors with poor results. I could get good germination rates but hardening them off always gave me trouble. I went this route figuring they would acclimate as they emerged and it seems to have done the trick. Also note my nursery bed is squirrel proofed sides and top. They seem to smell out anything I put in the ground or the freshly disturbed dirt and a persimmon seed is large enough to be a prize for them, not to mention a bed full of them.
These seedlings will get spring planted while dormant this coming spring. They may be a little on the small side but I’m hoping that means less transplant shock, which persimmon seems to be prone to. It might mean being extra vigilant for weed competition the first year or two though.

 

[yoderjac]

I’ve got a decent crop of persimmons so far this year. I took seed from persimmons right at the mushy stage and cleaned them well. I stored them in damp paper towel in the fridge crisper until late Feb / early March (after the worst freezes have passed for the year). I planted the seed in my nursery bed about an inch deep and let nature take its coarse. I wound up getting a fairly high germination with no more work than listed above.
I have started persimmons indoors with poor results. I could get good germination rates but hardening them off always gave me trouble. I went this route figuring they would acclimate as they emerged and it seems to have done the trick. Also note my nursery bed is squirrel proofed sides and top. They seem to smell out anything I put in the ground or the freshly disturbed dirt and a persimmon seed is large enough to be a prize for them, not to mention a bed full of them.
These seedlings will get spring planted while dormant this coming spring. They may be a little on the small side but I’m hoping that means less transplant shock, which persimmon seems to be prone to. It might mean being extra vigilant for weed competition the first year or two though.

I don't think that is unique to persimmons. I think that is one of the big challenges of starting trees in general early indoors. There are several factors. One is light. My trees grow like mad indoors, but no matter what indoor lighting you get it does not have the intensity of the sun. So, leaves that formed indoors can be very sensitive to sun scald when moved out doors. If you do it early in the year, they are less sensitive because the sun is not as intense when lower in the sky. This lets them adapt more slowly without constantly moving them.

The problem with that is the second issue which is temperature. I find if I move my trees out early (but after the last threat of frost), their growth stalls. I believe the cool nights confuse them after developing in 70 degree constant temps. It seems to take them a long time to start growing actively again. I'm not sure how much I'm really extending the growing season starting them indoors. When I get the timing and sun just right, they can show fantastic growth, but if I don't, they my be no better off than if I started them outdoors in the spring. I just don't have the time to mess with them during turkey season and spring planting time.

This issue may be different for folks in different zones from me.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

This issue may be different for folks in different zones from me.

Thanks,

Jack[/QUOTE]

this year, I started 16 express 18 trays of Dunstan and chinese chestnuts outdoors Feb 4

i transplanted ~100to 1 gal RB II May 4

I plan for one more transplant to root pouch 3 gal( black color ) in August

My first freeze is usually Nov 17

For these reasons, I skip the indoor strategy

bill

 

[Brush farmer]

I don't think that is unique to persimmons. I think that is one of the big challenges of starting trees in general early indoors. There are several factors. One is light. My trees grow like mad indoors, but no matter what indoor lighting you get it does not have the intensity of the sun. So, leaves that formed indoors can be very sensitive to sun scald when moved out doors. If you do it early in the year, they are less sensitive because the sun is not as intense when lower in the sky. This lets them adapt more slowly without constantly moving them.

The problem with that is the second issue which is temperature. I find if I move my trees out early (but after the last threat of frost), their growth stalls. I believe the cool nights confuse them after developing in 70 degree constant temps. It seems to take them a long time to start growing actively again. I'm not sure how much I'm really extending the growing season starting them indoors. When I get the timing and sun just right, they can show fantastic growth, but if I don't, they my be no better off than if I started them outdoors in the spring. I just don't have the time to mess with them during turkey season and spring planting time.

This issue may be different for folks in different zones from me.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack,
You may well be right on the point of acclimating seedlings. I know in pervious attempts at starting persimmons indoors I had wilted batches with very short initial periods outside in dappled shade which they had a hard time recovering from. From now on I’m just using my two nursery beds where one is first year seedlings. This way I’m always working a year ahead which is more of a jump than starting indoors and no stunting occurs.