Geothermal heating

[4wanderingeyes]

Anyone here use a geothermal system? Is it worth the initial costs? I guess there is a 30% tax rebate for installation. I was thinking of doing an outdoor wood boiler, and a propane boiler as a back up with in floor heat. But with the tax rebates the cost of both of them systems are about the same as the geothermal systems.

I also don’t know how to take advantage for the cooling side of the geothermal with in floor heating coils? With no air ducts installed?

Can you use the floor coils to pump cool water into them from the geothermal system?

 

[Catscratch]

I looked real close at doing it (even drilled a test well) but decided to spend the money on better insulation instead. Went with a plan of just USING less energy rather than finding a cheaper energy. It calculated out best for us this way in the long run. Also did a wood burner and passive solar designed house.

Geothermal does have great tax breaks and does cool as well as heat. I liked the rundown on it a lot, just wasn't the best option for us.

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[swat1018]

I've had two houses with open loop Geo. It is good cheap A/C. The heat is not as great. I think if you're in an environment where you need A/C more than heat, it wins easy. I don't think it's that cheap for heat, and the heat isn't a hot, warming heat...

 

[ksgobbler]

I looked real close at doing it (even drilled a test well) but decided to spend the money on better insulation instead. Went with a plan of just USING less energy rather than finding a cheaper energy. It calculated out best for us this way in the long run. Also did a wood burner and passive solar designed house.

Geothermal does have great tax breaks and does cool as well as heat. I liked the rundown on it a lot, just wasn't the best option for us.

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That’s us too. We went high efficiency wood burning insert and a top of the line heat pump. I can buy a lot of insulation for the extra money. Guy at work is building a 6000 sq ft house and installing it, but he is doing it all himself. Might be worth it then.

 

[chickenlittle]

My folks put a system in maybe 8 years ago. They'd had an oil burner for hot water baseboard heat and hot water but heated with wood most of the winter. They were retired a few years and wanted something cheap to run with no work. It was very expensive to put in, I'd guess $50K. Part of their expense was plumbing the air ducts into an old house and a whole house backup generator and propane tank so they could run it in a power outage. Fluid comes into the basement and goes to the liquid to air heat exchangers in the basement and attic. They have only had a few minor issues so far and are pleased with how it heats and cools the house.

Given the cost, I would have focused on insulation and air sealing and then looked at adding a couple mini-split systems. Besides the cost, I was concerned about how complicated it is and having the major subsystems fail after the warranty is out. I don't like having an air handler and distribution in the un-insulated attic even if they did put some insulation over them but they couldn't supply the air all over from the basement.

To use it for cooling, you need to have air ducts. You wouldn't want to cool your floor instead of cooling and removing moisture from the air above the floor. At some point, you will get condensation on the floor. Once you do air ducts, you might as well use the air for both heating and cooling.

 

[Tree Spud]

Build your walls at least 6" deep, 8" would be better. We put 2" of spray foam insulation that was R19 then Ecobat insulation over it.

We put an infloor heating system in. You would be amazed at how much better the building heats with in floor heating system. We have kept the bulding (40' x 90' with 17.5" high) at 60 deg F all winter. Even the coldest periods when it was -18 F, building was constant even temp. At 60 deg F, we actually are in shirt sleeves in there working it is so comfortable. I know as I get older the warm floor will be less fatiguing. Our old building took 3-4 days to get the building warm even when we kept it at 58 F when gone, cold cement floor takes a long while to lose the cold.

In floor was about $8k over conventional hot air. Key would be a very good heating/plumbing contractor and concrete person for the floor. You want a well drain site and good excavation work.

We are pleased.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Build your walls at least 6" deep, 8" would be better. We put 2" of spray foam insulation that was R19 then Ecobat insulation over it.

We put an infloor heating system in. You would be amazed at how much better the building heats with in floor heating system. We have kept the bulding (40' x 90' with 17.5" high) at 60 deg F all winter. Even the coldest periods when it was -18 F, building was constant even temp. At 60 deg F, we actually are in shirt sleeves in there working it is so comfortable. I know as I get older the warm floor will be less fatiguing. Our old building took 3-4 days to get the building warm even when we kept it at 58 F when gone, cold cement floor takes a long while to lose the cold.

In floor was about $8k over conventional hot air. Key would be a very good heating/plumbing contractor and concrete person for the floor. You want a well drain site and good excavation work.

We are pleased.

Do you have geothermal for the heat source?

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My folks put a system in maybe 8 years ago. They'd had an oil burner for hot water baseboard heat and hot water but heated with wood most of the winter. They were retired a few years and wanted something cheap to run with no work. It was very expensive to put in, I'd guess $50K. Part of their expense was plumbing the air ducts into an old house and a whole house backup generator and propane tank so they could run it in a power outage. Fluid comes into the basement and goes to the liquid to air heat exchangers in the basement and attic. They have only had a few minor issues so far and are pleased with how it heats and cools the house.

Given the cost, I would have focused on insulation and air sealing and then looked at adding a couple mini-split systems. Besides the cost, I was concerned about how complicated it is and having the major subsystems fail after the warranty is out. I don't like having an air handler and distribution in the un-insulated attic even if they did put some insulation over them but they couldn't supply the air all over from the basement.

To use it for cooling, you need to have air ducts. You wouldn't want to cool your floor instead of cooling and removing moisture from the air above the floor. At some point, you will get condensation on the floor. Once you do air ducts, you might as well use the air for both heating and cooling.

To install in a new construction the cost to heat a 40x50 garage, a living quarters above the garage, and a 2800sqft house, will be $20k. This doesn’t include the in floor tubes, or any duct work. There is a 30% tax deduction, so that brings the cost down to $14,000. I planned the in floor heat in the cost of the construction, and that would be installed regardless of which system I use.

If I were to install a wood boiler it would be $11,500 for an outdoor wood boiler. Then $3,500 for a backup propane boiler. So installation costs would pretty much equal out. The in floor heat will be the same regardless. So the way I look at it is, the geothermal system is practically free to use after installation, whereas the wood boiler would require me to cut and fill the boiler a couple times a day. And the propane boiler would require fuel. Seems like a no brained if installation is a wash after the rebates.

 

[Tree Spud]

Do you have geothermal for the heat source?

No, we have a propane fired instant hot water heater. It is a dual use both for the infloor heating system and for all personal use hot water.

 

[hesseu]

Geotherm here; 5 wells each 200 ft deep. 2 year old system...love it. Much cheaper to keep house cooled and warmed. We set it to stay in between 70-72 degree's, so it does fluctuate a bit. Ours has 3 zones.

 

[marlin]

Love my 10 year old geothermal horizontal system By far one of the better choices I've made.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

From my minimal research, it seems the bad reviews come from those who decided not to get it for whatever reason, but those that did get it love it. My intent it to put in a horizontal closed loop system. Our intention is to start building the shop/garage this summer, with a living quarters above it, then when we finish that, build the house. We wont be living there for a few years, and with the geothermal system we can heat/cool the place year around for very minimal costs.

 

[RobertT]

With the tax credit ours was a little cheaper than an air to air heatpump with gas backup. We zoned it 4 ways. 2000 square feet total electric bill on the coldest months runs $240. Overall I’m happy with it A/C is almost free. It just runs all the time below 15 degrees and is nota comfortably heat. I wish there was an option for gas heat back up.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

With the tax credit ours was a little cheaper than an air to air heatpump with gas backup. We zoned it 4 ways. 2000 square feet total electric bill on the coldest months runs $240. Overall I’m happy with it A/C is almost free. It just runs all the time below 15 degrees and is nota comfortably heat. I wish there was an option for gas heat back up.

Would you do it again?

 

[ksgobbler]

We are total electric and don’t have bills that high on more sq ft. Hmmm...

 

[RobertT]

Would you do it again?

Wife wanted it she got it. I would do an air to air with gas back up around 30 degrees.

 

[Catscratch]

We are total electric and don’t have bills that high on more sq ft. Hmmm...

Same here...

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[Camp 2 Dukes]

Almost bought a place that had Geo. The electric costs were through the roof. Not sure if their system was different from the rest but the electric bills kept us from buying the place.

 

[swat1018]

I have about 3000 sq ft under heat, including my basement with open loop Geo. My last electric bill was $250. Highest bill ever, but most qualify that we had some -20 degree temps during this time. But, I also keep my thermostat set around 62. I wouldn't do it again...

 

[hesseu]

Would do it again. Was cheaper w/ the tax credit, and our highest electric bill has been $250 w/ 4200 sqft. Can't imagine the propane bill if I had to go that route!