Franklin Cider Tree Availability

[Bowsnbucks]

I'll clarify my conversation with the girl at Stark's. The last thing I asked her was - " So, just so I'm clear on this, if I order a Franklin on B-118 rootstock, you're saying I may get it on B-118 - or it may be on M-7 and not on B-118 ?? " She said - " That's correct. "

I said " OK, thanks for your help. " I wished her a good day and hung up.

That's why I won't order from Stark's. I'd love to have a few more Franklins for our camp - but - I'm not into crap-shoots / rolling dice.

Thanks, Appleman, for trying to get more info for us on the Franklin Cider trees. We appreciate it !!

 

[chickenlittle]

You'll at least know which you got. B118 would have purplish brown bark. M7 would be greyish. You could choose to plant the M7 with the graft buried to get a bigger tree.

 

[Appleman]

I'm still trying to get answers as to why Stark Bros can't send you a Franklin tree on the rootstock requested. I called Customer Support today and got the same pitch I may not get the Franklin on B118, but instead M7. Rather said "They ship what they ship". I have been working with Stark Bros for many years and confident they will address it and make it right for the customer.

 

[Mortenson]

Two years ago I spoke with them and they said, "we can't guarantee a specific rootstock in our Retail Department." They seem comfortable. I'm guessing no change.

 

[yoderjac]

Two years ago I spoke with them and they said, "we can't guarantee a specific rootstock in our Retail Department." They seem comfortable. I'm guessing no change.

My guess is that retail is such a small part of their business, they don't want to deal with individual customer complaints. They promise nothing and can hire inexpensive workers to just grab out of the bin and ship. If they tell you up front you get what you get, there is nothing to make "right" with the customer.

We'll see what I get and I'll deal with it on my end. I may need to take the timing hit and move it to the rootstock I need.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

There are places that I prefer to deal with. One is a local orchard. They have provided me great advice, they offer grafting and pruning classes. I buy apples and cider there for our own consumption each year. They employ local folks. They have gone out of their way to help me with projects. If they offer something I need I prefer to buy it there.

There are places that I'm happy to deal with. They are places where I've had consistently good results and quickly make things right when stuff occasionally happens.

There are places that I will buy from but don't prefer. Stark fits into this category. If they have something I want that is hard to find elsewhere I have no problem buying from them. I have never had any ethical or problems dealing with them, but the rootstock issue this thread describes is one of the reasons they are not on my preferred list. However, they don't promise you things they don't deliver in my experience so far. I see nothing wrong with their policy, it just does not fit my needs well.

Then there are places that I doubt I'll every buy from again. Generally, providing a poor product doesn't put a company in this category for me. That can happen most anywhere from time to time. It is how they handle issues. Folks that promise something and don't deliver, or deliver something other than they promised, or have other ethical lapses will put a company in this category for me.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Telemark]

If the original tree is a seedling, would it not help to bury an M7 above the graft?

 

[yoderjac]

If the original tree is a seedling, would it not help to bury an M7 above the graft?

I'm not sure I understand the question. The original of every variety was a seedling. That original is grafted to the roostock of another tree (clonal or another seedling) to reproduce copies of the tree (at least the upper part of the tree that largely determines the fruit characteristics). When you plant a tree so that the graft is below the soil line, it is initially sustained by the rootstock but eventually the portion above the tree produces its own roots. Often the rootstock dies off and you end up with a tree that is completely on its own roots. The master grafter in a class I took said that one way to get a tree growing on its own roots is to graft to the rootstock upside down. The grafted rootstock will sustain the tree during the time it is producing roots but because it is planted upside down, the rootstock is pretty much guaranteed to eventually die.

So, the question becomes whether you want a full sized tree grown on its own roots and weather those roots will be better in you soil and climate than a known clonal rootstock. If you want the tree size, or disease resistance, or soil compatibility characteristics of a particular rootstock, one would need to regraft the tree to that rootstock. To be legitimate, one would need to destroy the original tree after the graft takes as this variety is patent protected.

Maybe I missed the question...

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Telemark]

It's illegal to let a Franklin grow on its own roots?

 

[yoderjac]

It's illegal to let a Franklin grow on its own roots?

No, not at all. It would infringe on the patent to keep the original tree and make a second clone on different rootstock. I don't believe moving the tree to another rootstock would infringe the patent like making a second copy. If you are burying it below the graft to put it on its own roots you would still have one tree and not have infringed on the patent either. Thanks for making me clarify.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Appleman]

No, not at all. It would infringe on the patent to keep the original tree and make a second clone on different rootstock. I don't believe moving the tree to another rootstock would infringe the patent like making a second copy. If you are burying it below the graft to put it on its own roots you would still have one tree and not have infringed on the patent either. Thanks for making me clarify.

Thanks,

jack

Correct and well written

 

[Appleman]

Getting back to you on the question of ordering at Stark Bro's and not being guaranteed the rootstock you would like to order. I sent out several E-Mails voicing your concerns but nobody has gotten back to me. After speaking to a sales representative, I was told this policy applies to smaller orders only (<50 trees). My advice, as an experienced grower, is to look for trees elsewhere, if you have a specific need for a certain rootstock for your site location.

 

[Diesel5610]

Getting back to you on the question of ordering at Stark Bro's and not being guaranteed the rootstock you would like to order. I sent out several E-Mails voicing your concerns but nobody has gotten back to me. After speaking to a sales representative, I was told this policy applies to smaller orders only (<50 trees). My advice, as an experienced grower, is to look for trees elsewhere, if you have a specific need for a certain rootstock for your site location.

Thanks for the effort. I totally don't understand their thinking, but I guess it doesn't matter. Lots of better places to buy trees for the small apple grower out there IMO.

 

[Telemark]

Well if I patent an apple, I'll be sure to put that in the contract that customers shall have the option to choose or at least know the rootstock they are ordering. That's another strike against Stark in my book.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Just a FYI - I just now spoke to the Wildlife Group and they said they have NO bare root Franklins - only 7 gal pots which may be expensive to ship. I asked if they were going to get any more for this year and she said no.

 

[DrDirtNap]

Just a FYI - I just now spoke to the Wildlife Group and they said they have NO bare root Franklins - only 7 gal pots which may be expensive to ship. I asked if they were going to get any more for this year and she said no.

They will take those 7 gal trees out of the pots and ship them bare root. You end up getting big bare root trees with a massive root ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

They will take those 7 gal trees out of the pots and ship them bare root. You end up getting big bare root trees with a massive root ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't speak for Franklins, but I know the wildlife group uses a root pruning container system for many of the trees they grow. There is a cost advantage in shipping of having the medium removed and shipping them bare root but you pay for it in tree development. If you plant directly from a root pruning container, the root ball is undisturbed. So, unlike a bare root tree that spends a year sleeping, and a year creeping before leaping in the third year, they begin growing almost immediately. They do not suffer nearly the transplant shock of a bare root tree.

Just want to let folks know there is a trade-off here. As I said, I don't know if they are using their root pruning bags for Franklin's, but I 'd check and make the decision that works best for you.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

My Franklin Cider Apples arrived today from Stark Bros. They were in great shape with very nice root development. I potted them up in 3 gal RB2s:

I realized that I could not choose the rootstock since I'm not a wholesale customer, but I'm trying to at least figure out what rootstock I got. These numbers were on the tag on each tree:

PP#28791
135291
1238-1777

The packing slip says Bin 3.51 and lot 1238-1777 (same as one of the numbers on the tag).

Appleman or anyone,

Is there a way to determine what rootstock was used based on any of this information?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Native Hunter]

My Franklin Cider Apples arrived today from Stark Bros. They were in great shape with very nice root development. I potted them up in 3 gal RB2s:

I realized that I could not choose the rootstock since I'm not a wholesale customer, but I'm trying to at least figure out what rootstock I got. These numbers were on the tag on each tree:

PP#28791
135291
1238-1777

The packing slip says Bin 3.51 and lot 1238-1777 (same as one of the numbers on the tag).

Appleman or anyone,

Is there a way to determine what rootstock was used based on any of this information?

Thanks,

Jack

Read chickenlittle's post #62. That should tell which you have.

 

[homerj]

Head back the leaders and use the trimmed off piece to graft onto whatever rootstock you want. If you're concerned about it being protected by a patent, do it and don't tell anybody about it.