Food Plot Nitrogen Fertilizers - Does it matter?

[yoderjac]

If I don’t use N with brassicas, I don’t get any bulb growth. And I even plant a mix of clover in the food plots.

I've had 5+ pound turnips with no commercial N added. I find the size is much more related to the length of growing season (how early I plant). Having said that, I keep my brassica component low in the mix (no more than 2 lbs/ac) and that fall mix includes Crimson Clover and always follows a summer mix with a legume like sunn hemp. N is certainly important to brassica, but adding commercial N is not.

I kind of look at it like a deer herd. My soil (presuming it is healthy) has a BCC for plants. Commercial fertilizer allows one to push the plant population beyond the native BCC for a period. One can then extract the nutrients from the land (harvesting) and replace them again (to a degree) with commercial fertilizer. That is pretty much what traditional commercial farming is. Alternatively, one can focus on soil health and keep the plant density within the BCC and skip the commercial fertilizer. This reduces the "yield" but that really isn't an issue managing for deer. If the deer population is well managed, nutrients extracted by deer are mostly recycled through droppings. For a farmer, yield is the amount of harvest per acre which is generally related to plant density. For a deer manager, yield is even more related to plant density, but it is really not that important. The most we can do from a food perspective, is to provide quality food in our plots during periods when native quality foods are scarce. Anything we plant that dose not end up in the belly of a deer when no equal or better native foods are available, does not really contribute to deer. (Not that it doesn't have value for soils and other wildlife). So, I can provide the same quantity of quality food distributed over more acres at a lower yield. This provides an opportunity to keep healthy soil with plant density within the "BCC" of the soil.

Thanks,

Jack.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I can provide the same quantity of quality food distributed over more acres at a lower yield. This provides an opportunity to keep healthy soil with plant density within the "BCC" of the soil.

Works for those who can expand foodplot acres to some meaningful scale. For those with difficult terrain, smaller parcels, or typically both (that's why some farmer doesn't want it and cheaper to buy in the first place) it can be unreasonable to assume that all can follow that model. A significant number of folks are probably in that camp.

I don't use fertilizer but happy to have just clover plots and trying to provide mast trees as other food options. I also value my turkey hunting over deer although have plenty of family and friends who feel otherwise that I do consider. When I do rotate in some brassica they will have small bulbs, not much bigger than radish. And do try to plant early for those but can only be so "early" up north.

In my case total of 1.5 acres of food plots scattered over 4 areas and any significant increase would involve major equipment in the 40k to 50k lb range and even than maybe could get to 5 acres but wipe out all the spruce, oak, and fruit trees planted. Beyond that is steeper slopes, rocks and typically both. For others it could be swamp, whatever.

 

[yoderjac]

Works for those who can expand foodplot acres to some meaningful scale. For those with difficult terrain, smaller parcels, or typically both (that's why some farmer doesn't want it and cheaper to buy in the first place) it can be unreasonable to assume that all can follow that model. A significant number of folks are probably in that camp.

I don't use fertilizer but happy to have just clover plots and trying to provide mast trees as other food options. I also value my turkey hunting over deer although have plenty of family and friends who feel otherwise that I do consider. When I do rotate in some brassica they will have small bulbs, not much bigger than radish. And do try to plant early for those but can only be so "early" up north.

In my case total of 1.5 acres of food plots scattered over 4 areas and any significant increase would involve major equipment in the 40k to 50k lb range and even than maybe could get to 5 acres but wipe out all the spruce, oak, and fruit trees planted. Beyond that is steeper slopes, rocks and typically both. For others it could be swamp, whatever.

That is what it is important to assess your situation when defining realistic goals. If you have insufficient scale QDM is not a realistic goal. That scale can be achieved by property you own, or in cooperation with neighboring properties, but without sufficient scale, it is not a realistic goal. I was speaking of managing deer. Keep in mind that nutrition is only one leg of the stool that requires scale. So does age.

For folks just trying to attract deer to a particular spot at a particular time to improve hunting, yield really can't play much of a role either. If deer densities are so high that a small plot is wiped out, you are not likely going to get enough scale on a small plot to make a difference. With a high deer density attraction becomes less important as there are more deer. Instead, I'd focus on planting less attractive more browse tolerant crops. Like you have found, perennial clover is a good choice. Less attractive crops become more attractive in a low food high deer density environment.

You make another good point about planting "early". When selecting crops to meet one's objectives, whatever they are, growing season for the crop is important. Whether doing QDM or planting for attraction, the key is to have a crop at the right stage of growth during the period you are targeting. A guy in the south doing QDM that can't get soybeans to canopy is not going to cover his summer stress period. Likewise, a guy planting for archery season attraction who plants the wrong maturity group soybeans is going to be disappointed when they begin to yellow just as the season starts.

Thakns,

Jack

 

[rocksnstumps]

Well again to get back to the point of the thread, a small plot guy that can't expand probably will benefit from some use of fertilizer and cost not that much of concern because remember I started this sentence with small plots not multiple acres.

In regards to brassica up north planted on poor soils (duh, if my area was awesome farm ground would be owned by some farmer) they really could benefit from fertilizer. I run clover year after year and try some brassica on occasion but bulb production is limited and having bulb tonnage is important in the late fall and winter up here for attracting or supplemental food. A small plot with large bulbs will be left till later when all the green stuff is gone or died back

Short growing season and poor soils typically give low yields that will not even last till gun season up here which is Thanksgiving week

 

[Bassattackr]

As a start I'll leave it with a couple of questions about nitrogen fertilizer?
1. Dumb question but from a hunt-ability perspective why fertilizer, especially nitrogen? What's your expected outcome and if you measure it what's the measure?
2. If you use chemical fertilizers do you buy bags or bulk? Dry or liquid? Does the material source of N matter to you? Should have asked this one first - if you buy fertilizer do you know or cares about the N source?
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals "Don't care at all" and 10 means "I'm extremely concerned" how do you think about the timing of nitrogen applications? That wasn't worded very well so humor me, please?

Interesting discussion. Bound to get a few panties wadded up here, but I'll play..

1) Huntability: For me, It's all about yield. Since I have a given acerage to work with, I want to maximize 1) The herd carrying capacity of my property 2) The herd health of my property and 3) Have the most desireable and longest lasting food source around me. Decent deer densities drive this as well.

2) Source: 50# bags are easiest.. Up to a pallet if needed. Don't own a sprayer so liquid or foliar applications not an option. Works well with my system, and a 3 point 700# cone spreader. Easy to spread, and incorporate with a disc. I prefer to incorporate at the time of planting for simplicity as well as to minimize frequency of soil disruption. My soil CEC isn't great, but good enough.. (About 10). So 10 CEC x 10 is about 100# max of N before leaching occurs quicker than plant uptake. Good enough for anything I plant, from Milo to brassicas. Don't grow corn (yet ) so no need to top dress anything addtional for me.

All that being said, I generally use the minimum I can get by with, but I get a very noticeable gain (yield) from using N, so I will continue to do so. Previous crop, rotation, etc all affect this judgement call for me. Typically use Urea (46-0-0), not treated as I incorporate. Or maybe some other Urea based mix like 20-10-10 if I need to boost other nutrient levels. IMO There's a place for AMS, but given how aggressively it acidifies the soil compared to other sources, I prefer to get my sulfur from Calcium Sulfate (gypsum). That and my Low Ca / high Mag soils benefit greatly from the gypsum.

3) Timing: For convenience reasons outlined above, I do at the time of planting. There are other benefits as well depending on what planting season we are talking. Lately the summers here have been very hot and dry, so any spring planting I like to add N at the time of planting to add quick growth and better establish the roots before we hit a dry spell. Fall - The season is short enough as it is so a shot at planting never hurts.

Good luck all this season.
- Dan

 

[yoderjac]

Interesting discussion. Bound to get a few panties wadded up here, but I'll play..

1) Huntability: For me, It's all about yield. Since I have a given acerage to work with, I want to maximize 1) The herd carrying capacity of my property 2) The herd health of my property and 3) Have the most desireable and longest lasting food source around me. Decent deer densities drive this as well.

2) Source: 50# bags are easiest.. Up to a pallet if needed. Don't own a sprayer so liquid or foliar applications not an option. Works well with my system, and a 3 point 700# cone spreader. Easy to spread, and incorporate with a disc. I prefer to incorporate at the time of planting for simplicity as well as to minimize frequency of soil disruption. My soil CEC isn't great, but good enough.. (About 10). So 10 CEC x 10 is about 100# max of N before leaching occurs quicker than plant uptake. Good enough for anything I plant, from Milo to brassicas. Don't grow corn (yet ) so no need to top dress anything addtional for me.

All that being said, I generally use the minimum I can get by with, but I get a very noticeable gain (yield) from using N, so I will continue to do so. Previous crop, rotation, etc all affect this judgement call for me. Typically use Urea (46-0-0), not treated as I incorporate. Or maybe some other Urea based mix like 20-10-10 if I need to boost other nutrient levels. IMO There's a place for AMS, but given how aggressively it acidifies the soil compared to other sources, I prefer to get my sulfur from Calcium Sulfate (gypsum). That and my Low Ca / high Mag soils benefit greatly from the gypsum.

3) Timing: For convenience reasons outlined above, I do at the time of planting. There are other benefits as well depending on what planting season we are talking. Lately the summers here have been very hot and dry, so any spring planting I like to add N at the time of planting to add quick growth and better establish the roots before we hit a dry spell. Fall - The season is short enough as it is so a shot at planting never hurts.

Good luck all this season.
- Dan

I would contend that if you don't have sufficient scale, you are not going to effect herd health in any measurable way. With sufficient acreage, you don't need yield. Keep in mind that the largest component of a deer's diet is native foods. Food plots only supplement during periods when nature is stingy. From a huntability perspective, as long as deer are using your plot during the period when you are targeting them for attraction, the objective is accomplished regardless of the yield.

When I started to cut back on fertilizer I saw a drop in yield, but zero difference in how deer related to my plots. I found I had the same result from a hunting perspective with a significantly lower cost.

I have absolutely no doubt your approach is working. It worked well for me for many years.


Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bassattackr]

I would contend that if you don't have sufficient scale, you are not going to effect herd health in any measurable way. With sufficient acreage, you don't need yield. Keep in mind that the largest component of a deer's diet is native foods. Food plots only supplement during periods when nature is stingy. From a huntability perspective, as long as deer are using your plot during the period when you are targeting them for attraction, the objective is accomplished regardless of the yield.

When I started to cut back on fertilizer I saw a drop in yield, but zero difference in how deer related to my plots. I found I had the same result from a hunting perspective with a significantly lower cost.

I have absolutely no doubt your approach is working. It worked well for me for many years.


Thanks,

Jack

You haven’t a clue what I need or don’t need.

 

[yoderjac]

You haven’t a clue what I need or don’t need.

Wasn't suggesting I have any knowledge of you situation. Just adding to the discussion providing counter points for folks to consider.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Put me in the boat with the guys who want to make sure they get the most yield possible to maximize food available in the plots through the season. In Central and Northern MN a good food source late Oct and on gets decimated once the natural food quality declines and all the row crops are harvested. The main driver is having that big draw throughout hunting season. I've only used bag fertilizer and typically urea specifically for brassicas.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm no soil chemistry scientist, but at our camp in forested mountains, we like to feed our deer year round. We don't plant plots just to hunt over - it's nutrition to grow a healthier herd and have bigger deer (bodies and racks). Maybe different goals for different landowners would alter one's plan of attack concerning fertilizers / maximizing crop production???

 

[yoderjac]

I'm no soil chemistry scientist, but at our camp in forested mountains, we like to feed our deer year round. We don't plant plots just to hunt over - it's nutrition to grow a healthier herd and have bigger deer (bodies and racks). Maybe different goals for different landowners would alter one's plan of attack concerning fertilizers / maximizing crop production???

If you have sufficient scale, QDM is a great way to go. Of course, keep in mind that more isn't always better. During some parts of the year, native food provide way more nutrition than deer will ever use and during other parts there are nutritional gaps. Smart QDM plots target those gaps. Where the gaps are differs by region. It doesn't matter to a deer where the nutrition comes from. Perhaps we need a new perspective on maximizing yield. Rather than looking at maximizing yield in our food plots like farmers do, we should look at maximizing yield of deer food and cover across our entire QDM area (1,000+ acres). Smart timber management can produce way more quality food while producing income than food plots which are a cost in some situations. I tend to look at food plots as gap fillers from a QDM perspective in a larger QDM food and cover plan.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

I'm no soil chemistry scientist, but at our camp in forested mountains, we like to feed our deer year round. We don't plant plots just to hunt over - it's nutrition to grow a healthier herd and have bigger deer (bodies and racks). Maybe different goals for different landowners would alter one's plan of attack concerning fertilizers / maximizing crop production???

Thanks Bowsnbucks for opening a thought....

Ah! The forested mountain! We discuss acreage without a thought. We don't often think about the third dimension. That would be the depth of the (top) soil on the acreage. Soil is a bucket. It's what holds everything that a plant needs to grow. Food, water, & air.

I don't want to get into a debate about yields. But, from a production stand point, soil depth is darned important. The best midwestern soils are 15 - 20 feet deep. Up in the mountains it might be only 2 - 4 inches to whatever comes next. Often its bedrock.

I'm a fan of nitrogen. But, there's no use adding more than can be used by your crop.